I make no bones about the fact that I’m a huge Travis Smith fan. His CD artwork is Art with a capital “A” and it graces the covers of many of my all-time favorite CDs. So I was thrilled when Travis said Yes to my interview inquiry e-mail. I called Travis this past week and was surprised to discover that he was gracious with his time, friendly, and somewhat self deprecating. What follows is our conversation, virtually word for word…

TS: How you doin’, Bill?

BM: Hey! How are you?

TS: Oh, not too bad, not too bad.

BM: [laughs] Good, well–

TS: Little tired.

BM: Little tired? Well, did you have a hectic day today?

TS: Yeah, I’ve been basically moving stuff all week, and cleaning up the yard, and moving, you know, breaking stuff up and throwing it in the trash and everything. And I haven’t had much sleep, so–

BM: Oh really?

TS: –it’s catching up with me.

BM: Wow. Well, I appreciate your time then, doubly today.

TS: Oh, no problem.

BM: Well, as you know, I’m a big fan of your art.

TS: Well, thank you very much.

BM: And as a matter of fact, you know, interestingly enough, the ProgPower forum just posted a question, a thread posed this week, “What’s your favorite artwork of 2006?” And wouldn’t you know, your name pops up quite often. [laughs]

TS: Oh really?

BM: Yeah.

TS: I’ll have to look at that.

BM: One of the top albums of 2006 that people are citing right now is Novembre, the Materia cover, which is phenomenal.

TS: Oh really?

BM: Yeah. They say that’s one of their favorite album covers of 2006.

TS: Wow!

BM: Yeah.

TS: That’s a big compliment.

BM: Well, it’s a great cover. I mean, I’m looking at it right now. That’s phenomenal.

TS: Oh, I see the thread right there.

BM: [laughs] See?

TS: [laughs]

BM: Yeah, you routinely come in like top–another one’s like Mattias Noren, another big artist from Europe. But, yeah, so this interview’s gonna be timely for those folks. They’re gonna love it.

TS: Nice. There’s a nice looking cover on a banner at the top of that page. Manticora?

BM: Oh yeah, yeah.

TS: It’s kinda small, but wow. It looks kinda neat.

BM: [laughs] Your cover art that I’m most familiar with right now is Mercenary’s, the one they just released, The Hours That Remain. When I was taking to Mikkel, he said it was a very quick, easy process, working with you on this one. How did this one differ from the other Mercenary cover you did, Everblack? What made this one so much easier?

TS: Actually, I don’t know. It was a lot easier. It’s hard to pinpoint any particular reason, it just seemed that I connected with them a little faster this time. And plus, you know, since I was working with them on Everblack, I was just talking to them and, you know, still getting a feel for you know, how they were and what they were looking for. And you know, I’ve talked to Jakob [Molbjerg, guitars] numerous times since then, and you know, you kind of, even though we’ve mostly talked over e-mail, you, you know, I felt like I kinda got a better feel for him, his personality, and when he asks you to do something, you kind of know his vision a little bit better.

BM: Yeah.

TS: It’s, in some ways, for the new one, I still ran into the same problem as Everblack, where I wasn’t exactly sure how to pin down their idea right away. But I just, you know, it just kind of fell into place a little faster this time. There was actually less time, I had a lot more time to do Everblack. And I think, for Everblack I think that I had a thing I was working on, and it was a moon picture, and that was something I was just kind of playing with. And they said something about a moon, and I showed them that, and they liked it, but it wasn’t right. And so we spent a lot of time. I said, “Hey, I’ve got this thing I’m working on, maybe it’ll fit.” And then, so we tried a couple different faces in the moon, and that one was more a matter of, they kind of liked it, but it was a matter of getting it right. And this time, there was a little less time and I, you know, I still, I read the lyrics, and you know, there was just so many visuals in their lyrics, it was kind of hard to pinpoint down one single thing to run with. And usually when I do that, when I can’t do that, I try to run with everything.

BM: [laughs]

TS: You know what I mean?

BM: Yeah.

TS: To try to do, and try to do multiple images. And unfortunately, the timeframe this time around wouldn’t allow for that. So I kinda tried to switch to a different frame of mind and just kind of do something that fit with the title, without really, without saying one particular thing, where it would just encompass the general scope of the whole thing. And so, what happened with that, basically, is I got a couple ideas in mind, and did some rough versions, and they, I think I did four or five rough versions, you know, rough drafts of ideas. And I think they weren’t diggin’ one or two of them, but they liked the ones that ended up in there. And that’s pretty much it.

BM: It’s a cool cover. I really like it.

TS: Well, thank you.

BM: You also worked with another band at ProgPower this year, Zero Hour. You did a couple of theirs. Their Towers of Avarice cover is considered one of the classics of all time.

TS: Yeah, that, I’m really proud of that one. And I didn’t get to work with them this time, actually. [On Specs of Pictures Burnt Beyond.] But you know, I was working on that one, and it’s another case of there was some miscommunication and the deadline came up to fast when they asked me, and so I said I’d give it a shot. And they had these ideas, and you know, let me see, I’m trying to recollect here. They gave me some ideas about the title, and then there was a couple other ideas we had for some different songs inside. And it was kinda hard for me, there was a couple of things I had to do special to nail down the idea for the title of the album, so in the meantime I was working on some of the secondary ideas. And the deadline just came up too fast and I couldn’t do everything. Actually, the funny thing is, the thing they put on the cover for the new one, it’s similar to an idea I had.

BM: Oh really?

TS: Yeah. I had a personal picture, when I was, it’s kind of a leftover from the Katatonia Black Sessions. ‘Cause I was doing, there’s a couple pictures from that of a guy with a trench coat, with some photos raining down on him.

BM: [laughs]

TS: And there’s one in that, and when I was working on that idea, one of my drafts that I threw out was the same guy, but he was in a crumbly street.

BM: Oh wow. Yeah.

TS: You know, which was kind of funny. And I actually did have that idea again, and that didn’t seem–I think if I knew they were looking for something like that, I would have ran with it. But it didn’t, that kind of thing didn’t seem as epic for Zero Hour, you know, when you compare it to something like Towers. ‘Cause I was still, you know, whenever I work with Zero Hour, I have that mindset of like, you know, the epic scope like Towers is, or you know, so I wasn’t even thinking along those same lines. And then, you know, I was kinda struggling with that. And then the label had another guy try out some things, and then he did that one, and it’s really cool. But when I saw it, I went, “Oh man, I shoulda tried something like that.”

BM: [laughs]

TS: So, but no, it turned out real well. And looking at the final result, I think they made a good choice, you know?

BM: Oh yeah. It’s pretty good. So you must be pretty familiar with ProgPower USA then, aren’t you?

TS: Oh yeah, I’m familiar with it, yeah. I’ve never seen it.

BM: The way everyone loves your art, I’d think if you came to a ProgPower and set up a table or something that you could probably sell your art and make a fortune. [laughs]

TS: You think?

BM: Yeah. Yeah.

TS: I never even thought about that.

BM: You should connect with Glenn Harveston sometime. He’s the brilliant guy who puts these ProgPower USA festivals together. Maybe he’d consider that. But yeah, that thought just occurred to me. I’m thinking, wow, with all these people liking your art, this is the perfect place for you to be.

TS: Yeah, that’s really flattering. Thank you very much.

BM: [laughs] Well, my taste in art tends to run to sort of the ethereal, Dali, sort of strange, I don’t know how to describe it. But whenever I see your art on a CD cover, I almost want to buy it without even knowing what the band is, ‘cause I figure whatever’s on the inside’s gotta be cool.

TS: [laughs]

BM: Do you get people that, do you have a following like that now, where people just see your cover and think, “Yep, I gotta have that.”

TS: I don’t know, actually. I don’t know what they’re thinking when they buy it. I’ve had a couple people e-mail me with complements like that, and once in a while they’ll say something like that. I think it’s really cool. I mean, it means a lot to me to hear things like that. Actually, some days, hearing things like that actually helps me through the day sometimes, ‘cause I’m stuck on an idea and I think I’m in a rut, and I’m like, “What am I doing?” And I can’t, you know, and I’ll hear something like that. You know, it’s not often, ‘cause I don’t really talk to a lot of people all the time, but occasionally I do hear things like that, and it’s really nice to hear. I mean, it means a lot, and it’s very flattering.

BM: Well, where do your ideas for the CD art images come from? Do the bands send you their music as a demo, or the lyrics, or they just talk through ideas? How do you get from initial contact to final piece?

TS: It varies. Pretty much every project is different in that respect. Sometimes, you know, I don’t even know where to start with something like that. Let me see, I’m not very good on the phone, so I’m trying to think over my words. They, a lot of ideas are just, either I already have them, or you know, I’ve had an idea before and I’ve sketched it down, but it’s incomplete. You know, maybe I just kind of leave it there in case it comes up in the future, just a basic thought. And sometimes somebody will say something and I’ll think back on that and say, “Hey, I have this basic idea, maybe I can work it into this and make it fit, ‘cause it makes me see that.” I mean, the way I see it kinda fits with the way I’m seeing what they’re telling me. Other times, they’ll tell me what the album’s about or what the feeling is or what they’re saying. And I’ll have a completely new idea. And other times, there’s other times where they’ll already have the idea. They’ll say, “We want this, this is exactly what we want. Do this in your style or how you see it.” Or even a little more, off that, they might say, “Well, we kind of know what we want, we have this general theme, but we wanna see what you can do with it. This is what we want this to say, but how you say it is up to you.” But in all the cases, you know, I’ll try something, I’ll put the idea down, and it might not be right at first, so I’ll go back and forth with the band. And we might fix this or fix that and make this better, or you know, things like that. So, but a lot of the ideas, you know, sometimes I’ll get a really good idea, and it’ll fit a CD. There’s been a couple albums that I’ve done that are completely my idea, and at first, they weren’t related to the album. But you know, when I started working on the album, I pulled out that old idea and tailored it to that particular project and it fit real well. But you know, sometimes, once in a while, I’ll get really lucky and a good idea will come from nowhere, you know, sometimes before I need it, sometimes not soon enough. But you know, it just really depends.

BM: Well, you mentioned your style. You know, that’s an interesting phrase, because I was going to ask you about that. Everybody seems to be able to recognize your artwork when they see it. You know, like with Roger Dean or Derek Riggs, or some of these guys that are distinctive. What is it about your style, how would you describe your style? What is it about a piece of CD artwork that says, “Travis Smith”? What do you put into it that says that to somebody? Or even yourself?

TS: I’m not exactly sure. People have asked me that before, and I’m not really sure. I’m not sure what the proper answer would be or the correct answer.

BM: [laughs]

TS: Because, you know, my style is influenced by things I see, just like I’m sure anybody’s is, you know, with whatever they’re doing. And so, some things I do I don’t think are all that distinctive, and some things I do, I think they are. But it’s just, I don’t know, I think when I get an idea, I put it down the way I see it and the way I think that it would look the best. I mean, sometimes I’ll get a little abstract with it, or sketchy, or sometimes I’ll try to do something really focused and simple, you know, more photographic than sloppy, or whatever. It’s just kind of, you know, that’s one of those things I was talking about, where when I’m talking to a band, and we’re talking about the idea, I might see it one way, like “Oh, this needs to be a little abstract, heavily textured or a little bit, you know, a little off kilter, a little bit odd.” And they might agree, or they might not agree. And sometimes they don’t agree, so then I’ll try it the totally opposite way.

BM: Yeah. Well–

TS: I mean, that new Katatonia [The Great Cold Distance], I think is real different for me. I mean, I’ve seen things like that before, I don’t think it’s, as far as the solid red and the solid black, I’ve seen things like that before. But as far as Katatonia goes, I think it’s a little bit different. You know, the band and I were talking back and forth on that, and said we wanted to try something different. And that’s the first thing that popped into my head, just something like that, real stark and real, you know. Not even so much contrast, ‘cause the colors almost eat each other up.

BM: Almost like a Mondrian sort of approach, just primary colors?

TS: Yeah. More or less. And then, inside we just did some little abstract things. But that was the mood that seemed to fit that moment, so.

BM: Well, you know, I’ve read some interviews with you online, and one of them said you’re self-taught and all of your designs come from Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark Xpress, things like that. You also said that some of your designs start with photographic, your own photographic images.

TS: Yeah.

BM: What kind of camera do you have, Travis, that’s taking these kinds of photographs? [laughs] Is it, like, hooked into The Twilight Zone or something?

TS: [laughs] No, it’s just a regular camera. When I say things like that, I mean, sometimes I take a photograph of something that might become something completely different. I mean, right now I’m doing a cover–well, I mean, for example, Towers of Avarice. The basic shapes of the towers, I basically painted the shapes of the towers. And all the things that are in the towers, like to make the texture of them and the elements, they’re just like random photographs, like a metal texture. I made some portholes that I photographed things off a wheel, and just some random pipes, and then like a landscape. Yeah, I went down to the beach where there’s this really tall hotel, and you know, went up to the roof and took a picture of the city, and used that as the landscape for the little textures in the bottom. And then the sky is a mixture of watercolor and actual photographic clouds. So, sometimes I’ll use a straight photo and just treat it and texture it and to give it the right look, and sometimes I’ll just photograph a bunch of different things and cut them up and build something completely different out of that.

BM: Wow.

TS: You know, sometimes I might make a person, you know, there might be a person on the cover, but he could be, they could be made out of different parts of different people that I photographed. You know? So?

BM: [laughs] What kind of camera do you use?

TS: Right now I’m using a Sony digital, like an eight megapixel. Like an F828.

BM: Yeah. That’s pretty high-end. That’s a good camera.

TS: Yeah, it’s not bad. I got it, bought it from a friend of mine who I work with sometimes. And I still like the film thing, I still use my film one as well, but so far, the things that I stick to the digital a lot, because with this one, I finally have one that when I take the photo, the file is, you know, high enough quality that you can use. ‘Cause when I was buying my first camera, the digital cameras, they were taking, you know, very tiny pictures.

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

TS: And you couldn’t print with that, ‘cause it was just too pixelated. So by the time it came ‘round, I got offered this digital camera, the quality was there and the convenience, it’s just very convenient.

BM: Yeah.

TS: I mean, you take a couple of shots and you plug it into the computer, and if I want that old film look, then I just kind of take the digital pictures and put some grain over it.

BM: [laughs] Isn’t that ironic? [laughs]

TS: Yeah. Well, I like that. That’s always been kind of one of the things I like. I really like that old, organic look of film. It looked, I don’t know. When you look at an old photo, or you look at a photo like that, it just had a certain feeling that certain projects just need. If it’s too clean, it just won’t work.

BM: Yep.

TS: And, so actually a while ago, when I got the digital camera, I took, with my film camera, I shot on slide film, I took a bunch of photos of nothing, it was just white. So I scanned that in and got the grain from the film, and I used that. You know, maybe I shot a wall that has different lights on it, so the edges are a little dark, and sometimes I lay those over the digital and it gives it a little more, you know, organic, or yeah, organic look.

BM: You know, some of these interviews, I read a couple just today, interviews with you. One in ‘99 that you did and somebody asked you if you still have a day job, and you said yes. But then the very next year, in a 2000 interview, you said no, now your full time work is making CD cover art.

TS: Yeah, yeah.

BM: In one year’s time, you jumped from yes to no.

TS: I think I quit my job in ‘99. I think that’s when I quit, ‘cause I got signed on to a comic book.

BM: Oh really?

TS: And so, basically, I just wanted to take a risk and try it out. And so the comic book was basically my day job at that point, but I didn’t have a day job anymore. But the comic book was consistent, that was my job, and the CD covers were still side work, you know. ‘Cause I’d get up in the morning, and I’d have to finish one or two pages today, you know, no question. So that was, that became my day job without having the day job that you clock into, you know?

BM: [laughs]

TS: Everything like that. So I actually quit my job for that. And that lasted about two years.

BM: What comic book was that?

TS: It was called Violent Messiahs. It was on Image.

BM: Yeah, oh yeah. Well, looking back on this thing now, you’re full time CD art covers for at least six years now. Has it been the sort of ride that you thought it would be? Or is it better or worse? How would you describe where you are right now?

TS: It’s, the ride has been a little bit better than I thought it would be. Like I said, when the comic book stopped, I got really scared, but I’m like, “Well, I don’t think I can support myself on CD covers.” You know, as far as having a mortgage and a family and stuff like that. And in a lot of ways, I was right, but in a lot of ways it was also not as bad as I feared it to be. But, I think at the point where you look at it right now, I thought I would be a little bit farther along as far as security in the whole thing. You know, I’m still, you know, it’s still, right now, “Am I going to have enough jobs for next month.” Or, a bunch of little jobs will come and I’ll take them all in just so I’m, you know, I know they’re there. But at the same time, now I have twice as much work to do in the same amount of time, you know?

BM: [laughs]

TS: So that makes it really tough as well. So it still has a lot of ups and downs. And I thought that maybe at this point it would be a little smoother.

BM: Is it, do you like second-guess yourself a lot, or do you worry about your abilities? Or is it–

TS: Oh, all the time.

BM: Really?

TS: Yeah.

BM: Why is that? I look at your stuff and I think, “Man, I would kill to be able to do that.” [laughs]

TS: [laughs] I don’t know. Because, it’s like the thing I was saying earlier, sometimes the ideas are not there.

BM: Yeah.

TS: Or they’re not working the way I thought they were, or, I mean, just anything like that. If I get these, or I might get to the point where, let’s say I committed to three jobs. You know, that have to be done in a month, month and a half, two months, whatever. So the time is pretty much filled. Well, then maybe a couple weeks after that, while I’m still working on those, somebody will come along that I’ve worked with before and want to work with me on something that I just don’t want to turn down. And so it’s like, well, I wanna do this, but I don’t have the ideas and I don’t really have all the time to do everything I want. So I have to try to figure out how to make that all fit. And when you’re, well, at least for me, when I’m working under conditions like that, it’s really hard to like, just kind of sit back and let the ideas flow. And sometimes, and like something I said earlier, sometimes the ideas just don’t come. You know, it’s like writers’ block.

BM: What do you do to get them to come then?

TS: I don’t know. That’s what I’m saying. Like some of my best ideas, you know, that I’ve had, like I don’t know, they were just there, and I just wrote them down. I didn’t even have to think. Some of the ones I’m most proud of, they just came there. And it wasn’t like I thought too hard. Sometimes, I’ve been lucky on a few projects, where I give it some thought, and work a couple problems out with it, and it’ll just click. I’ve done that a lot of times. And everything just fell into place and it was a really good feeling. But most of the time, you know, the ideas were just there. And sometimes, when I need to have something fast and I need to have it right, you know, it’s just not there. That was one of the problems with the new Zero Hour. There was something about it that just wasn’t clicking.

BM: Yeah.

TS: So I was like, “Ok, I’ll put this one back and I’ll work on some of the other ideas they were talking about.” So I was getting them going, and I was still stuck on that cover that they needed first. So that was…

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

TS: So it’s, I mean, and not to use that one as just one specific, it’s just like, that’s just an example of all the kinds of things that can happen. And when you have so many things like that going on, then it just makes it really tough. And if I can’t come up with something on time, well, no I actually rambled, and I’m trying to get back to your question. When things like that happen, that’s when I start doubting. Like, “Oh, you know, when the next thing comes up, am I gonna be able to you know, do it the way it needs to be done?” You know, so…

BM: Well, you know, my day job, what I do is Advertising and Marketing. And I’ve had that same feeling though, every time I’m faced with a new project, and I’ve got to write all the copy for it, I feel that way too. Like, “Heck, I don’t know if I can do this again. Where does it come from?” But you know, it always does.

TS: Yeah.

BM: It just seems to. But I worry about it beforehand. You know?

TS: Yeah, like I said I’ve been real lucky sometimes, where I’ll be struggling with something for a week, just like on one image and I’ll just be struggling. And then out of the blue, like in a second, everything will just click and fall into place. And it’s just, the problem is, that doesn’t always happen, and so you get, it’s not something I want to count on. You know, I don’t want to take it for granted, so to speak.

BM: Well, you mentioned the covers you’re most proud of. What would be a few of those? What’s a couple of good examples?

TS: Let me see. A lot of the Katatonia ones, and a couple of Opeth’s for sure, and the Devin Townsend Terria one.

BM: Oh, that’s a great one, yeah.

TS: Yeah, that’s really up there. I’ve done a lot that I’m really, the King Diamond one I’m really proud of that one. And you know, those couple Zero Hours, I really liked how those came out, you know. And like, those are perfect examples of things that just fell into place.

BM: Well, the Opeth covers you’ve done, judging by your output, I would say you’ve done more of those than any other band, including Iced Earth. You’re almost like a fifth Beatle with the Opeth guys. [laughs] What is it about Opeth’s music or their covers that really makes you come back again and again and want to work with them?

TS: Well, I think the main thing, the main reasons I keep working with them, is they keep, so far, they’ve asked me every time.

BM: [laughs]

TS: And they’re, on top of that, they’re one of my favorite people to work with. So you know, I’ll work with them as long as they ask me to. And they’re also one of my favorite bands. And they’re just real inspiring. The last Opeth album was a very good example of–

BM: Ghost Reveries?

TS: Yeah, that was one that it took me a little while to connect, and then I had a couple ideas that just weren’t right, and you know, during the whole process where I was coming up with the ideas, I started developing the look of what would eventually become the artwork. But the actual concepts weren’t there. You know, they weren’t right for Mike [Mikael Åkerfeldt, guitars]. I was kind of struggling with that, the deadline was creeping up, and then, I think it was just like one day, I think on a Sunday, I just had this rush of ideas for it out of the blue.

BM: That’s great, yeah.

TS: And I spent like two days just, you know, drafting up the ideas. And I sent them to Mike, and there were a couple he threw out, but there were two in there that he was like, “This is a keeper, and this might just be the cover.”

BM: Wow.

TS: So you know, we talked back and forth and I got a feel about what he liked and what he didn’t. And I just kind of ran with that, and everything kind of fell into place like real easily.

BM: Well, you’ve had probably, what, 200 covers by now in your career.

TS: Yeah, it’s something like that.

BM: What, is there one or two that you can think of that were like the hardest ones for you to do? Like when you think of them now, it’s like, “Oh god, I remember that process, it was a pain in the ass.” I mean, are there a couple covers that gave you the most trouble?

TS: Not that I can think of right off the bat. I had a little bit of a hard time coming up with the right ideas for the last Sadus thing. You know, not to imply that it was unpleasant or anything, but that was one that I wasn’t clicking with right away. I was interpreting things like totally wrong. And, you know, I was trying to think of a bunch of different, really unique ways to say one thing, ‘cause I wanted to really attack that thing with artwork. And a lot of the ideas were wrong, and they weren’t right for some of the guys in the he band. And so like, “I like this element, so why don’t we take that, and why don’t we try this.” And so that became a thing where at first, it was see what I can do, but later on it was, “well, your ideas aren’t exactly right, but they’re giving us some thoughts, so let’s combine these things.” But at first it was kind of tough.

BM: Well, the album–

TS: And I can’t think of anything right off hand. I’m sure if I thought about it a little longer, I could think of a bunch that were real difficult.

BM: How about the positive side of that? Was there one or two where they just instant, flowed immediately, it was just done?

TS: Yeah. Opeth is usually like that, and Katatonia is usually like that.

BM: Cool.

TS: The Terria one, the Devin Townsend was definitely like that. Those things just came out. And there was actually, yeah, there was a little bit of, another one that was a little bit tough was the Devin Townsend Accelerated Evolution. I was having a really hard time pinning that one down. And you know, finally Devin was like, “This has to be right, you know, and it’s not clicking yet.” And so it was getting kind of strained a bit at the end. And after he had this talk with me that kind of lit a fire under my ass–

BM: [laughs]

TS: And then, the next day, I came up with what became the cover, the rough. I was like, “Well you’re looking for something kind of like this.” ‘Cause like at first he wanted something really clean and sterile, and the things weren’t sterile enough, I guess.

BM: [laughs]

TS: And I just went to the other extreme and made things really sterile, and he’s like, “This is perfect.”

BM: [laughs]

TS: So, and even the hard ones, even the ones that are difficult, that’s kind of the way they turn out. You, it’s just like there’s a few weeks of struggle, and they might just click. And there’s a couple times, you know, it hasn’t clicked or whatever. But as far as the ones that are just real easy, like I said the Opeth, and again, Devin Townsend. The last, the new Strapping Young Lad, that was real, that fell into place immediately.

BM: Wow. Tell me about this cover that people are saying is one of their favorites of 2006, the Novembre, the Materia cover. What are the elements I’m looking at in that? Did you take a picture of that kid looking at something, and then you superimposed some background to that? What is this picture made up of?

TS: Yeah, that started out a little bit different than it ended up. That one started out a little bit tough, that’s a good example. I worked with them before, and with this one they came at me a little bit late in the game. Another one of those things, “Hey, we kinda need something fast. This other thing we tried isn’t working out, and the time is, you know, we’re getting short on time, do you want to try something?” And I love working with them as well. I love that band. And so I’m like, “Sure.” And they had a couple general ideas, and I was trying to figure out a way to take their ideas and make it work, but also very quickly. And sometimes that’s a bad combination.

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

TS: So anyway, a couple of those ideas ended up inside the booklet. And there was some people that, you know, there was a couple people that had differing ideas on it. Some people really loved it and thought it fit, and there were a couple people that thought it didn’t. So nobody could, there was a couple disagreements that we sort of tried something else. And he said, “Well, the time is kind of short, what other ideas do you have?” And that was the one that ended up on the cover was like a really old personal idea. There was just something I was playing with, ‘cause you know, I did take the photo, and I really liked that photo. So I was always trying to do this with it, or maybe put something in the distance that made it a little bit ominous.

BM: Yep.

TS: And that was one of those things that even for myself, I could never really make it work, so I just kind of left it alone. And during this whole time, that factory element, that industrial factory overshadow kind of element that’s in there, that came from the original ideas that you might see inside. So I took that, and I remembered that old photo, perfect example of the first question.

BM: Is that photo one you took, is that somebody you know in the photo?

TS: Yeah, that’s my son.

BM: Is it really? [laughs] That’s great.

TS: Yeah. So I think that was when he was three, and he was on the beach and he was looking out. And I was just sitting there and I snapped him. And I just love that photo. It’s just one of those where you can take 20 photos of something, but there’s that one that just really stands out. That’s why I’ve always tried to do something with it. So I was looking through some of my old ideas in my sketchbooks, and you know, my old archives, and I found that one, and I tried the factory element in it, and I said to myself, “Well, here’s an old personal idea I have, maybe this will work for something too.” That was actually one I submitted when they were, “What kind of ideas do you already have?” You know, that I’ve done that maybe will work. And I think that was one of the ones that I sent, but I wasn’t real happy with how it looked at the time, so I did like seven or eight different versions of it with different colorings and textures and things like that. And they said, “Well this one right here really fits, you know, everybody is really happy with this for the cover.” So they just kind of went with that.

BM: Wow, that’s great. Does, you mention your family a couple of times. Are they pretty supportive? Do they enjoy your career, and they like your CD covers? What kind of support do you get from your family?

TS: It varies, you know.

BM: [laughs]

TS: [laughs] You know, my kids are like still really young, but my daughter’s old enough to be curious about it, so she’ll ask what I’m doing. And you know, she’s actually been on a couple of them too.

BM: Oh really?

TS: And you know, so it’s, yeah. It can get trying, like I said, this kind of thing can get trying, so, you know.

BM: Oh yeah.

TS: So sometimes there’s support, and sometimes there isn’t. [laughs]

BM: [laughs] Yeah, that’s probably pretty typical. You know what I found interesting? Your web site, talk about minimalist. You’ve got 32 covers on there. Did you handpick those as your best of the best? Or what does that represent on there?

TS: Are you looking at the current one?

BM: Yeah.

TS: Well, I’m putting that back together right now.

BM: Ok.

TS: And I’m doing it a little bit at a time. What happened is, I don’t know, it’s been a while since anything’s been done with it, and it’s never left my mind, but you know, I did a couple of new updates, like last year. And then the webmaster, you know, was busy with some other stuff, was out of town a lot, and I think she you know, was ill for a little bit. So I was like, ok, you know, we had the old one up and I just didn’t really like the look of it. But when she did it, I kind of like didn’t, she was going to try this, and experiment with that, so I’m like, “Hey, do whatever you want, as long as people can go up there and look at the pictures.” So I think, we took that old one down, ‘cause I wanted to try like a really simple, grayish, just like you said, real minimal, where it’s nothing but, you know, the necessary text and some artwork. And some things. So we totally erased the old site, and while we were thinking about that, you know, she got caught up in a lot of different things, and couldn’t do it fast enough. So we’re getting back on track with that. So we got the basic format down now, and since we erased the whole thing, I’ve just been going through my old files and picking out the ones I want ot put up. And those ones that are up there now are just some of the most recent things.

BM: I see, yeah.

TS: You know, they’re not brand new, but I figured, while I’m still getting the other sections back up, I’ll start out with the most recent things that weren’t added to the site before, and then build it up kind of backwards. And you know, newest to oldest. And so I’ve gotten those there, and I’ve been uploading files for like a week now, going through the older stuff, you know, as it’s not online yet, but the sections are being built. So I’m going through the old stuff, and I’m picking like my favorite. Since most of the new stuff’s there, I added some more new stuff that’s newer, that hasn’t been put there, and while I’m going through the older stuff, I’m kind of doing like a favorites. You know, I’ve got the Katatonia section, and then the Opeth section. And you know, the King Diamond stuff, and that kind of thing. So I’m building it a little bit at a time, and then when there’s enough there, we’re going to put it up all at once.

BM: Do you have, you sound like a fairly young guy. Do you remember the album covers of the ’70s and how cool they were, and elaborate? You know, fold-out, pop-up, booklet type stuff?

TS: Well, the thing is, you know, when they were brand new in the ’70s, I was too young to appreciate them, as far as what you’re talking about, the real elaborate works. Or you know, with the elaborate packaging or the artwork itself. But, you know, since I’ve started doing this, I’ve definitely looked at a lot of things like that. And I have gained an incredible appreciation for things like that. I mean, something, you know, even when I was a little kid and I was buying KISS albums and ACDC and stuff, even then, I liked the Back in Black cover, because it was black, or I liked the Dirty Deeds cover because, I didn’t even know what it meant, you know.

BM: [laughs]

TS: But I still kind of liked it. So I’ve always liked them, but as far as like an appreciation, I mean, when you’re eight or nine, you don’t look at the Tommy gatefold. You know, “Ooh, that looks kind of neat”, but you don’t have a, at least not for me, a real appreciation for everything that was involved.

BM: How old are you?

TS: 36.

BM: Yeah, see, you’re a fairly young guy. But see, what I was getting at with my question is, for me the album covers of the ’70s were everything. I loved them. And then when CD’s came in, it was gone. It was just instantly gone. But now your covers to me, make the artwork just as exciting as it used to be in the ’70s. So that’s–

TS: Well, that’s saying something. I really appreciate hearing that. Well, I kind of, that’s one thing that I kind of feel the same way. ‘Cause like you said, now I have kind of a retrospective appreciation, I mean, looking at Pink Floyd The Wall on CD, yeah, I had that on vinyl when I was a kid, and that was just amazing. You know, even like I said, but with perspective, now I appreciate it much more. But then, it was just like, “Oh cool.”

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

TS: But I mean, even now, I appreciate something like that on vinyl, you know, exactly what you’re saying, it’s much better in the vinyl format. Sometimes, when I’m doing a booklet or something, I’ll try to put, you know, if there’s time and the ideas are flowing, I really like to do multiple photos. And keep each one a little bit simple. That’s something I learned later on. A lot of my early stuff, it was you know, “How much can I throw in here to tell the story?” Where later I learned it’s not what you throw in, it’s what you leave out. You know, it’s what’ll tell the story exactly like it need to be said? You can use the other parts inside to continue it. But I feel the same was as you do, I have an appreciation for that. And with the CD, you have less to work with as far as the way it’s presented.

BM: Yeah.

TS: So I kind of, instead of a big canvas, I try to take all the pieces of the canvas and try to do something with it as one continuous thing. You know?

BM: And it works. Now, for me, I look forward to the art with CDs just as much as the music. So now, it’s come full circle, and it’s a total package now. I really appreciate that about what you’re doing.

TS: Well, thank you. Yeah, that’s one thing I try to do, and I think a lot of that, no small part is, one of the CDs I remember standing out in my mind about the same time I really started doing this for real, was that Megadeth Euthanasia one.

BM: Oh yeah.

TS: And you know, Hugh Syme’s always been one of my favorites. And I looked at that, and I realized you know, he’s got like a, there’s a different picture for every page, or every lyric has it’s own story. I really liked the way he did that, so that’s kind of something either consciously or subconsciously that I kept in my mind. Sometimes I do really like the minimalist approach, though. Because like, you know, when CD’s first came out, like if you even look at the back of the original Abigail CD or Master of Puppets, it’s just like a flat color with the song titles.

BM: Yeah.

TS: And sometimes I actually like that. You know, I’ll do that myself sometimes now, ‘cause it just, sometimes it fits. Or like, Fates Warning Parallels.

BM: Oh, that’s great, yeah.

TS: I mean, that is one of the most minimalist layouts I’ve ever seen, but at the same time, I think it’s so elegant. I mean, I love the whole thing. Just the way he kept the textures going with the really classy photos.

BM: That’s great.

TS: And the nice lyrics, you know, all laid out. I really love that clean approach a lot, as well. ‘Cause sometimes it doesn’t feel right, trying to cram a whole bunch of artwork in, you know?

BM: Yeah.

TS: Sometimes, it’s just like, if you have a really nice cover and a back cover, that sometimes if you put too much in, it might overshadow it. So it just depends.

BM: Another artist you said you like is Dave McKean, and I can definitely see some of his style in yours, with some of the covers. He’s got a quirky way of approaching things where he uses a lot of photographs too, it appears.

TS: Yeah. Yeah, he’s one of my favorites for sure. He, it’s kinda weird with him, you know a lot of people have talked to me about that before. And they’re like, you know, “He’s obviously an influence on you. Are you trying to copy him or whatever?”

BM: No, I wouldn’t say that at all.

TS: One thing I told him, it’s like, I don’t know if I could copy him.

BM: [laughs]

TS: He’s like, he’s just too, you couldn’t try to copy that guy.

BM: No. [laughs]

TS: And have it work.

BM: Yeah, I know it.

TS: So there’s a couple things, a couple reasons that I do like his stuff so much. First of all, a lot of his stuff, when I first discovered him — I think it was on some CDs and a couple of Sandman covers — and a lot of his things look like the drawings that I used to do, like for Psychotic Waltz flyers and things like that, when I would just draw. And that’s one thing I like about the computer, is because, and photography, is ‘cause it can take some of the things I drew on paper, and you can — ‘cause I’m not really a good painter. I couldn’t paint something like that at all. I mean, it would just look terrible. I mean, I can’t channel it from my–if I have a pencil or a pen, I can do a really nice drawing. But you don’t want to put a weird pen, like ball-point pen drawing on a CD cover. So when I discovered the computer, I actually found out that I can actually, with the computer, I can channel within my mind, and have it come out. And it actually goes to my hand and comes out the way I want it to. That’s why I’m so, that’s why I click so much with the digital thing. And so there was that, but at the same time, that was about the same time I discovered Dave McKean. And that was a little bit before I actually knew what Photoshop was. And his stuff just looked so surreal and so foreign to me. I’m like, “Well, this is a photograph, but I don’t understand how he did this, because I know some photographers.” Keep in mind, I had never heard of Photoshop at this time. I didn’t even know this kind of thing was possible. And you know, I have a couple of photographer friends, and I’m like, “How are they doing this, because this part looks like a painting, you know.” I think one of the covers was Testament Low, and it’s obviously a photograph. There’s the leaves on the ground, and that’s a man, he’s with light, and he’s blurred. And I was asking my photographer friends, you know, “How is this possible?” And they were saying, “Well, we have methods to do things like that, but you can’t pull that kind of thing.” And they’re like, and they were older as well, so they weren’t familiar with Photoshop either. And so they couldn’t answer my question. So I was just like, ok, I’ll just appreciate it for what it is. And I kinda, you know, stopped thinking about it. And then, it was about a month later where I discovered Photoshop. And so I kinda learned, I played around and finally figured out what you could do with it. And I tried this one tool, and the result was, you know, I was, like I said, I had some textures going, and I has some elements here, and I was just experimenting with the tools. And I tried this one thing, and totally on accident, and the result was exactly what I was looking at with Dave McKean’s stuff. It was like the fade out, and the light, but the way this part’s clear, you know, like on that guy’s torso, this part is clear, but this part’s blurry. And then there’s these cracks in his chest. You know, I had this texture, right, that I dropped over the image. And I experimented with this tool, and it made the exact same effect. And so then, I’m like, ok, this is how he does that. And at that point, I had such an appreciation for him, that when that kind of effect came up, that’s what looked right to me. It was like, “Oh, that’s how you’re supposed to do this.”

BM: [laughs]

TS: And so at first, I’ve actually thrown away a couple of ideas in the past, because they were too much like McKean. And that’s not to say that the quality was there, but it was just like, well this looks like you were trying to get that, but you failed, you know? And so, over time I kind of learned how to take what I learned and develop it into, you know, not my own thing, just something, into something that wasn’t, you know, something a little more individual, I guess.

BM: Yeah.

TS: Where, just because it looks like that, doesn’t mean it’s right. Try to find, try to do something with it for yourself and see what you can do. I mean, now you know how to use this, so see what you can do. Don’t try to do the same thing. And then I kind of went with it from there, and that’s what I’ve been doing ever since, basically. But he, yeah, on that note, he was definitely a big influence, for those reasons.

BM: Well let me ask you one more question, and then I’ll let you get back to things there. And I do appreciate this a whole lot.

TS: Oh no. It’s no problem.

BM: Tell me something. This may be a hard question to answer, and I’m not sure you can, but what is it about you, your own personality, that produces these types of art images? Because, in other words, what did you put into you to get these out? Did you, were you raised on books or comic books or horror movies, or what went in to get this out?

TS: That’s, well, I can answer that. I mean, I can, but I don’t know if I can answer it very simply. It’s a combination of all that. You know, I spent most of, a lot of my time early on reading books and listening to metal and watching movies, you know, and other people were out getting in fights and stuff, and I was sitting in my room reading comics and playing video games and stuff like that.

BM: [laughs]

TS: So it, I don’t have really, you know, compared to some people I don’t have the life experience, but I’ve always liked to draw. And I’ve always come up with, you know, reading books or movies or whatever, you kind of get these ideas about things, and you know, so you kind of come up with your own little twisted kid ideas. I was always drawing pictures like that. And as you grow older, you know, you kind of keep the same kinds of things, you know, the superficial fantasies, whether they’re scary or beautiful, they’re things that are appealing to you. And then as you grow up, they’re things that affect you more. And it’s just sometimes they combine. And maybe a lot of my ideas are just things I’d like to see, or what if they looked like this, or what if this good thing was doomed to go bad at some point, or what if there’s a feeling of no hope, but over here’s the hope, you don’t see it from here yet. So how do, I don’t know, I just try to think of all these scenarios, and then, and a way to realize them in one or two images, you know? And I just kind of take a little bit of thoughts from here and there, you know. Like I said, brutal fantasy things or horror things, or you know, emotional things, or a little symbol. And I just kind of try to tie them all together. That’s a really hard question to explain, actually. That’s kinda–

BM: No, that’s a great explanation. And a couple things you said, the emotion part I get quite well. ‘Cause a lot of these things resonate with me a lot. There’s a lot of emotion, a lot of passion in this artwork. But you know, another thing I see in it though, is almost a bleakness. I mean, if you had to look at all of them combined, maybe that’s the genre of metal. Maybe that’s what I’m seeing here visually, but you don’t seem like a bleak kind of guy, but the kind of stuff you produce is often very scary or spooky or you know, twisted in some way. So how, that’s not coming from your personality, is it?

TS: Not necessarily. Sometimes you have those moods where things like feel really bleak. You’re having a bad week, you know, how are you gonna get through the week, or there’s a problem. You know, not necessarily, it’s not necessarily indicative of anything real specific, but you just kind of have that mood sometimes. Sometimes there’s a bleakness because, I don’t know, maybe the picture has like a character. And it’s just supposed to be like nothing there, because for a couple reasons. It might take the focus off them. I might have this one point, I just want this one part to tell the story, and adding too much might take away from that, so I’ll leave it simple. Or, sometimes it’s there to maybe convey a feeling of emptiness or loneliness or you know, and with that might come independence. Like when there’s no one you can depend on, you have to find it in yourself. You have to find strength in yourself. Or maybe that’s the way this person, maybe the image you see on the cover is not exactly the way things are, but maybe this, the protagonist, that may be how they’re seeing the world. You know, there might be nothing there, or there might be ugliness, or there might be some ugliness with one little niceness. You know, one little positive thing. Or it might be the reverse, you know.

BM: Is there…? Go ahead.

TS: So you’re right, with the metal thing, there is a lot of that. I mean, it’s almost built in, because I’ve, and I think, I don’t know. That’s one of the things that makes it more appealing to me, because it’s, I think that gives it a little more feeling. And there’s always the story with it. And there’s something I can, whether I can relate to it or not, it’s something that always makes me feel something or connect. And you know, that’s really inspiring for me, for whatever reason. I don’t have a definite answer as far as that goes. But I do know that some of the times, you know, with a certain band or a certain lyric, I know exactly what they’re taking about, and I know the feeling that they have.

BM: Yeah, that’s it. Yeah, that’s a good way to put that.

TS: And a lot of times, even if it’s not supposed to be literally bleak, the bleakness gives it that intention. Or it gives that mood.

BM: Is there one of your covers that you most resonate with? Perhaps even colors. Because I’m looking at your home page right now, and I’m seeing the Triggering Myth cover [The Remedy of Abstraction], for some reason I love that. I think there’s certain colors you use, maybe these deep blues like that ship tossed about on the ocean there, that I resonate with. Something about those colors. Is there some stuff that you do that really just pleases you inside? Like you look at it and you just think, “Oh geeze, that’s me. That’s me inside.” You know what I’m trying to say?

TS: I know what you’re trying to say. I can’t think of one, there are a few that do that. I can’t think of one that does that completely. About the colors, some of those covers, ok, you mentioned two. So like, the Triggering Myth, they didn’t suggest the blue. But the way that is, is there’s a little spot of ugliness happening in the picture, and the rest was not, the rest is supposed to be the outside where it’s not so ugly. And I thought, there’s one of the lines where, in that album, where “after my house is burned down, I can see the moon.”

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

TS: Its, I thought it was brilliant. It’s a way of, when things are very wrong, it’s a way to look at them positively. It’s almost the way to see the bight, the silver lining in the cloud.

BM: Oh yeah, yeah.

TS: And I thought that was just a brilliant line. And that’s where that cover came from, because sometimes I feel like that myself. But I didn’t want, when I did that one, it was supposed to look a little bit stylized, and you can tell what’s going on, but the outside was supposed to be a little bit more serene. And so that’s where that came from. And blue just seemed to be a natural choice for that one. It wasn’t anything personal or, it just seemed to fit. And for the cold colors with the ship sinking, that was, you know, the band suggested like a dark blueish gray. You know? And so I went with that, and that one just kind of became what it was on its own. You know, that’s the way I started with that one, so that’s the way it finished. Other times I’ll try a couple different color tones. Lately, I’ve been kinda, a lot of my covers lately have been one color over a bunch of colors. And I’m trying to work on some things now that have a little bit more color in them. But when I do something like that that has a dominant color, I’ll do it a couple different ways. It’s like, I might see this photo for me, it looks better to me as a golden orange or a red or something. But that color doesn’t seem to fit the idea of the image, so I might try a yellow version, and then go over and do a grayish version or do a couple, change the tones a little bit. And then I might send more than one of those to the band and see which one they like better. Like for the new Katatonia, Anders [Nystrom, guitar] told me, “We want to do something red.” And that was the first thing he said.

BM: [laughs]

TS: And he’s like, “And I mean, a lot of red. We just want something, you know, every Katatonia album had a color. Like this is the blue album, this is the silver album. This time we wanna do red.” And that was the first thing he told me.

BM: Really?

TS: And at first, that was the only thing he told me, “We just want to do something red.” And I’ve always been real good with working with them. I’ve been able to take their thought, I mean they’re, like I said, they’re one of my favorite bands to work with. And this is one of those reasons, i just, I’m real connected with them for some reason. I mean, they’ll tell me something, and I can just run with it. And it’s always right. And even if it isn’t right, it’s almost right, and it just takes a little bit of work. And they’re just real easy to work with when something is wrong. Like, “Well, this is the only thing I see different.” And the communication is just always there. And it’s just always a great experience. And, but like I said, the Katatonia thing, that wasn’t my pick. They just said, “We want to do something red.” And I’m like, “Well, what should we do?” “We don’t know, but we don’t want it to look like the last one.”

BM: [laughs]

TS: “The last couple have looked, you know, they’ve looked similar in the way they’ve looked, and we want to do something red and stark and different and simple.” And so I kind of threw some things down on that one. You know, that’s a good example. And for the Morphis, that’s on my site, and that’s kind of a gold tone. I started, I did a couple different things for that one. I did some that were a real dark blueish gray with some orange highlights in it, like a nighttime sky. And I did some that were a real washed out kind of bluish aqua for a water feel. And I did a couple of those gold ideas, and they were real happy with that, ‘cause it looked, for them it looked a little bit old and primitive. You know, they said it looked really primitive, the gold, the scratchy gold gave it a really old and primitive look, which was exactly what they were going for. So I kind of ran with that as well. So there’s sometimes the colors are suggested by the band, either at the beginning or along the way. Or sometimes, I’ll do a couple different things that I’m feeling, and sometimes it’s feel, and sometimes it’s just arbitrary as far as what I feel makes the image look better. And I can’t always decide. I’ll be like, “I’m not sure which one I like better.” And they’ll be like, “Well I like this one.” And that, you know, narrows it down.

BM: [laughs] Well, that’s great. I appreciate your time, Travis. I really do.

TS: Oh, well I really appreciate it too. I mean, I hope it was good, because like I said, sometimes I have trouble finding everything I want to say without taking too long.

BM: No. It was perfect. It was one of my favorite interviews.

TS: Maybe you can fix that. [laughs]

BM: [laughs] It was great. I really appreciate it. And I’m looking forward to your next–what are you working on next? What do you got on the burner for you, what’s the next album?

TS: Well, right now I’m doing, I’m working with a band called Moon Sorrow on their thing. And I’m working, might be trying out some ideas for the new November’s Doom. And another Winds album, which should turn out really cool. That one and the November’s Doom, if they go with this, are going to look real nice. I’ve got a couple things, Redemption. That’s almost done.

BM: Cool.

TS: And I might be trying out some ideas for Tarja from Nightwish for her solo thing. And, which I’m real excited about.

BM: Well, yeah. I thought she dropped out of sight. I was wondering what she was going to do. So now she’s coming back to the scene, and you’re helping her do it, huh?

TS: Yeah. She’s, I just started talking to her manager a couple days ago, so I’m still seeing how that goes. I don’t think it’s set in stone yet, but that’s one of the things I’m trying some ideas for. Hopefully that’s not tooting my own horn before it happens, or counting your chickens, as they say.

BM: [laughs]

TS: Yeah, so it’s a few things like that.

BM: Very cool. Well, thank you so much, Travis. I appreciate your time. You have a good rest of the day there.

TS: Thank you very much. You do the same.

BM: Thank you. Bye bye.

TS: Bye.

Travis Smith’s official web site is www.seempieces.com. You can also see a nice display of his CD covers on the Rate Your Music web site (www.rateyourmusic.com). Just search for “Travis Smith.”

Travis told me that he sells signed artwork. Any cover that he’s done. Just ask. His price is extremely reasonable, too. (And, believe me, I’ll be turning in my order soon.) To contact Travis — for signed artwork or to commission him to work on your band’s album art — use the contact form on his official site.

Leatherwolf is a legendary band. Big in the 1980s, disappeared for a while, and now back with a vengeance. Big time. Their latest CD, World Asylum, is metal from start to finish, thanks to new members Wade Black on vocals, Eric Halpern on guitar, Pete Perez on bass and original members Geoff Gayer on guitar and Dean Roberts on drums. I recently spoke with Dean about Leatherwolf’s past, present, and future.

BM: Hello.

DR: Hey, it’s Dean.

BM: Hi, Dean. How are you?

DR: I’m good, how are you?

BM: Doing well. Doing very well. I appreciate your time this evening.

DR: My pleasure.

BM: Let’s chat a little bit about Leatherwolf and the new album, and what audiences can expect from you guys at ProgPower.

DR: What can they expect? Play old songs and new songs, and high-energy Leatherwolf.

BM: Well, tell me about the new album, first of all. It’s fantastic. How has it been received so far?

DR: It’s been positive and negative, but you know, what can you expect when you switch out some members and you switch out the singer? Some people are gonna be happy and some people are gonna be sad.

BM: [laughs]

DR: You know, I mean some people are hooked on “The Calling” and “Hideaway,” and some people are just loving “Behind the Gun” and “King of the Ward,” you know?

BM: Yep.

DR: So, it’s better than I expected.

BM: Well, tell me about the tracks on the album here. If I mention the track titles, can you tell me kinda what’s going on with that song?

DR: In what aspect?

BM: Oh, what it’s about, where the lyrics came from, who came up with the idea or what you remember?

DR: Ok.

BM: Tell me about the opening track, “I Am the Law.”

DR: Ok. “I Am the Law,” Geoff and I wrote that, like, five years ago. Vocals were just kind of thrown together, mainly by him, and then by me. You know, it went through changes over the years. But of all the songs, that one has least of a story line that we followed.

BM: [laughs]

DR: [laughs] You know, ’cause we just got sick of that song.

BM: Really?

DR: Yeah, well it’s been frickin’ five years, so it’s, not that it’s a bad song, we just kinda got over it. It almost didn’t make the cut at the end of the day, but somebody else outside of me and Geoff picked it.

BM: Oh, that’s cool.

DR: ‘Cause we recorded 13 tunes.

BM: Oh yeah. And now there’s 10 on the album, so there’s three hanging around somewhere out there?

DR: There’s actually four, yeah.

BM: Really?

DR: Yeah.

BM: Are they ever gonna see the light of day somewhere?

DR: You never know, dude. It’s all, if the record does well, then we’ve got thousands more songs that we can draw from history. And if it doesn’t, then, you know, what can you do?

BM: Yeah, I hear you. What about track two, “King of the Ward”?

DR: “King of the Ward” was mainly written by a guy named Chris Adams, who was working with that song, you know, like four or five years ago. And Geoff came up with some of the words with him, and he came up with some of the chorus. [sings: I’m not perfect, I confess, I’m no different from the rest.”] But that’s kind of, just like a guy whose kind of sick at it, looking at his life going, “What the heck? What am I doing here?” You know? And then, going back to that line, [sings: “I’m not perfect, I confess, I’m no different from the rest.”] It’s, you know, now it’s time to get out of here, basically. And that was Geoff and Chris mainly that basically did all that song. And that’s just my take on it, but talking to Geoff, I think that’s the message they were trying to convey.

BM: Cool. What about track three, “Behind the Gun”?

DR: Geoff wrote the majority of that, and that’s just about a father and a son having a conflict. And just a bunch of little elements about that. Where somebody dies and the son wonders if the father did it.

BM: [laughs] A song with a mystery, a whodunit metal song.

DR: It’s a whodunit. Who done that?

BM: [laughs] How ’bout track four, “Live or Die”?

DR: That was mainly mine and Geoff’s melody. Geoff mainly came up with the melodies. I started to try to dick around with that one, and I just couldn’t come up with nothing, really. I came up with some pieces. But then Geoff and I sat down, Geoff already had melodies for it and he already had words for it, so we mainly did that. And I had some verses for it that kinda migrated their way in there. And Wade even had a couple of words for Geoff’s melodies. So that song was just thrown together in like two hours. And that one’s kind of about like a kingdom that was gonna rebel against the king and take over power. That’s what we started talking about as we started writing those words.

BM: What about “Disconnect”?

DR: “Disconnect.” You’re gonna have to ask Geoff about that, ’cause he wrote that whole deal from beginning to end. And my take on it was it’s about kids and computer games, and there’s just something evil in the computer that they’re battling against. You know, everyone’s gonna have a different take on it.

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

DR: I know talking to Geoff, that’s what he said, you know, when we just did an interview the other day, he was talking along those lines about that particular tune.

BM: Cool. What about “Dr. Wicked”?

DR: That’s another one that’s Geoff. I had a couple lines in there, but he wrote that about Kevorkian.

BM: Oh yeah, yep.

DR: And then, and I just threw in the one line at the very end, where it says, “Torn from the heart we are all super sick.” I tried to add something a little positive in there, about something that is not so negative.

BM: [laughs]

DR: You know, misery–I get sick of misery and hopelessness, you know?

BM: Well, yeah.

DR: But this song said to me, “There’s gotta be a reason. Why?” [laughs]

BM: Why. [laughs] Yeah, why.

DR: It basically goes, “I stepped away from my love and that’s why I’m in hell.”

BM: Yeah. [laughs] What about “Institutions”?

DR: That’s another one by Geoff, but that song’s been, you know, that song’s a good five, six years old too. And it was always the same up to the, you know where it turns into that [sings guitar riff], that came up at the end, right during the finishing of the other song, Geoff came up with that idea. And then he added all of his guitar stuff and he added his verses for the end. And that middle section was, me and him sat down, and he had some stuff that his dad had written down. That first line is something his father wrote about a story, which maybe Geoff would have a better idea what it was, I couldn’t get a grip on what it was. But it was something about something not being right in the world.

BM: Oh, you could write a lot of songs about that. [laughs]

DR: Well, there’s always a lot of that going on, but it is the way it is, man. So there must be something right about it.

BM: Yeah. True. [laughs] How ’bout “Derailed”?

DR: That’s one that Geoff came up with everything. He came up with the chorus, and he had different verses written for it, and then you know, Wade stepped in after everything was already done, and he came up with an idea just for the melodies. And so we thought, “Hey, you know, it could go either way. So we let him, “Hey, that’s good, you write the melodies.” And he wrote some of the words, Geoff wrote the chorus, I wrote some of the words, and we just pieced it together, you know, like on the spot.

BM: Yeah. Let’s see, “The Grail,” is it?

DR: Yeah, “The Grail.” That’s another song that’s, the melodies were already written. Jeff Martin from Rex Records sang it once. And but mainly, Geoff had wrote the first words, all the melodies, and then after that didn’t work out with Jeff Martin, we sat down and we changed some of the melodies. And Geoff wrote the first, the intro verses, and then I wrote the words for the rest of the song. And I kinda wrote it around the Holy Grail, just the story. You know, the hero’s adventure, and I was kind of trying to piece it together, just like The Fisher King with Robin Williams.

BM: Oh yeah, it’s a great movie.

DR: Yeah, so I was trying to you know, revolve it around that story in those particular timeframe, you know? And this was my first time actually writing words, trying to fit a story into a structure that’s already done.

BM: [laughs]

DR: So it was a little tricky, you know?

BM: Well, yeah.

DR: So that’s like one of my favorite songs, because I kinda like the, you know, the six minute songs that have tons of different part and have killer leads, like “Rise or Fall” or “Gypsies and Thieves.”

BM: Oh yeah.

DR: That’s one of my type of songs. I’m kinda glad that I got to, my story kinda stuck, it didn’t get canned.

BM: [laughs] How ’bout the last track, “Never Again.”

DR: There’s one again, Geoff already had the melodies written, and he wrote most if not all the words, and that was kind of like an Ozzy deal. You know, he was gonna do those short liners and put leads in between. But once again, it’s about hopeless and misery and gosh, what the heck, it can never get better, and blah, you know?

BM: [laughs] Gee, you don’t sound real happy about that.

DR: Well, it’s the state of affairs, man.

BM: Yeah.

DR: [laughs]

BM: [laughs] Well tell me about this album as a whole. First of all, Leatherwolf’s been around a long time. And you’re one of the original members, correct?

DR: Well, it’s not really like we’ve been around a long time. We were a band from like ‘80 to ‘89, and then we stopped being a band ’til ‘99. And we only got together for a couple weeks, to record a record and go play a show. And since then, we haven’t really been a band. We tried to get together and make a record, but the majority of the guys have, you know, real jobs. Which, me and Geoff do, but we still said, “Hey, you know, fuck it. We’re gonna finish this record.” And so we’re the only two that actually went in and did it. So it was easy to find, you know, a bass player to play some of the songs, even though Geoff had to replay five of the tunes on the record. It was just tricky finding a singer that could sing in the range we wanted to have the song sing in. And so, you know, that’s one of the reasons that it took so long to, you know, finish it up. ‘Cause Mikey [Olivieri, vocals, guitar] was, during the process Mikey was kind of in and kind of out. But then at the end of the day, he said, “Dudes, this is out of my range and I don’t really want to sing metal.”

BM: Well, yeah, I guess it’s a different sound now. Your early ’80s stuff sounds like the ’80s. It sounds like, I hate to say the phrase “hair band” sound, but it’s got the Motley Crue, Dokken, Ratt kind thing going. Now, this new album is extremely aggressive, very metal, and heavy. So I can see how you’d need a Wade Black sort of guy rather than a Mike Olivieri.

DR: Well, you know, Wade’s more of a metal singer. Mike’s got a little more melody, Mike’s got a little more–he’s a little more, well, he played with us for years and years and years before we even started recording. So you know, he had a better grip on the songs.

BM: Oh yeah.

DR: On how they should have been sang. He didn’t quite have the range, but they were still great. And if you look at our first record, I mean, a majority of it, 90% is just like these songs that we’re. It’s just as we went to Island, we had less time writing, you know, so some of the easier stuff got accepted by the labels, and we let it slide by. You know, “Hideaway,” “The Calling,” you know, “Thunder,” “Street Ready,” stuff like that.

BM: Well, what made you guys come back now? LIke you said, you haven’t really been a band since, what, ‘89 or so? Off and on.

DR: It was more just the determination to finish this record.

BM: Ok.

DR: You know, me and Geoff had started, and we said, “Ok, no matter what, we’re gonna finish it. No matter who’s in it or where it goes, we’re gonna finish it.” So that’s what we did. And what we just didn’t really think about is playing the shows. ‘Cause it’s really hard to learn that style of music with guys that live all over the United States, and have day jobs. You know? So that’s still something me and Geoff are trying to tackle right now, you know?

BM: Well, is this something that–is this a one-off gig for you? Or is Leatherwolf back to stay for a while?

DR: Well, it all depends on the dollar.

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

DR: If we can go play and it not cost money and put a couple pennies in our pockets, then we’re in. But if there is no money, ’cause there is no label, then you know, it’s a done deal.

BM: What does this feel like then, when you play gigs? You’ve played a few gigs here and there, and obviously you’re gonna be at ProgPower. Does this feel like a new chapter for you, or does this feel like, gosh, you’re playing sort of a nostalgia playlist? What does it feel like to be in the band right now.

DR: Oh, it’s a lot of fun, it’s just different getting used to playing with guys that you’ve only played with for two weeks, compared to guys that you played with for, you know, eight years. It’s a different level of playing as a unit compared to playing together for a week and then playing shows. So it’s different in that aspect, but with the new songs, the energy level is good. And Wade, Wade, he’s got a lot of energy in the way he sings and the way he, you know, plays on stage. So I mean, in a nutshell, I would say that we’re still trying to play together enough times to where we feel comfortable playing with each other.

BM: Well, I’m looking forward to seeing it live, ’cause it has an awful lot of energy on the disc. Are you finding that translates well to the stage?

DR: Well, the shows that we’ve played, the record wasn’t out, so we mainly played older tunes. And we played like two or three new tunes. So it’s–there are certain songs that are tricky because there are three guitars going on, and we don’t have that right at this particular point. But we are, we’re trying to figure out if we can financially add, get Mikey to come play, and to sing, and to have three guitars.

BM: That would be great. That was your claim to fame back then, wasn’t it? Three guitar assault?

DR: Well, I would say you were right, if I got famous.

BM: [laughs]

DR: But I never got famous, so… I guess it was our reject to fame.

BM: [laughs]

DR: You could put it that way, you could say, “Well, that’s the reason you didn’t. You know, with two guitar players you might have. Maybe if you got rid of that extra guitar tech, you might have actually been somebody.” You know, you could go on for days.

BM: [laughs] Well, how does it feel to you to be playing drums again with the band? Is it like, “Whoa, this is where I belong.” or how does it feel? What is it like?

DR: For me?

BM: Mmhm.

DR: It’s a lot funner, because I’ve been sober for a while, so now I can put 100% of my talents to playing on the record, making the record, and playing live shows. Before, I was a little bit too much of a partier, and didn’t get to be much involved in the making of the songs. You know, I just stepped in and played other people’s music. So for me, and Geoff, with me playing with Geoff and being able to write songs with him, and participate in putting it together, it’s been really exciting for me. Now the rest of the business part has been a frickin’ headache.

BM: [laughs] Oh, I can imagine.

DR: Finding a singer, fronting the shows, all that shows, that’s been kind of a headache. And that’s been the only bummer about it. But see, there’s some other good things. We’re starting to show up on the charts. On one chart, we’re number 14 for record of the year for heavy metal, for all metal, like black metal, or fucking, or frickin’ all kinds of music. In Flames got number one on that particular one. And the only two other metal bands that beat us was Beyond Fear and I forgot what the other heavy metal band was. But that’s pretty good, for, you know, we recorded this ourselves in the garage at my house.

BM: Oh really?

DR: Yeah.

BM: Well, it’s got a great sound, you did a great job. Were you also the engineer for that?

DR: I’m the–Geoff and I were both producers and engineers on this. The only thing we went out of me and him was just mixing. We flew to Denmark and mixed with Jacob Hansen.

BM: Wow. Well, what have you been doing then, between–you must have stayed pretty close to the music scene if you can–

DR: No. I haven’t played drums from ‘98 to ‘99. I didn’t ever play a drum set.

BM: Really? Just for that year, or from ‘99 until now?

DR: From ‘89 to ‘99 I never played a drum set. And from ‘99 to now, I just played drums on a couple of shows. And when me and Geoff did this, put this record together, we just sat in a room and played on a little trigger set to piece the songs together. And then when it came to recording–see, that’s the thing, it’s not like we rehearsed these songs. We just put them together and sat behind a computer, and I figured out what I wanted to play. Then I set up my drums and I recorded them. So that’s how this particular thing went through. It’s just recently I started preparing to play live shows, and frickin’ trying to polish up my drumming ability.

BM: How has it been for you? Is it like riding a bike, it just all comes back?

DR: You pick up where you left off, but you know, it’s changed a lot. You know, there’s a lot more killer drummers out there that know a lot of stuff. I bought some drum videos and just learned some of their techniques, ’cause they’re phenomenal musicians. So I’ve been just–in a way it is like starting over, because when I was younger, I didn’t really take it as seriously as I am now, trying to master my trade, you know?

BM: Had you kept up listening to music over the periods of time after Leatherwolf stopped? What did you do? Did you just quit music entirely?

DR: I just quit music entirely. ‘Cause you know, we kind of had a sour ending to Leatherwolf, and I just sat back and figured out, “What do I want to do? Do I want to play for another band, or do I just want to get a career and make some money?” And I just decided, you know, I’m more the type that likes to just play with one group of guys. And I didn’t really want to get into meeting new guys, playing in a new band as a hired gun, and having to deal with this stuff and saying, “I don’t even like these guys.”

BM: [laughs] Yeah. Wow.

DR: Kinda like that.

BM: So this album then, could be a pivot point for your career and your life, then, couldn’t it? Or is it set up to where if it doesn’t work, it’s no big deal?

DR: Yeah, if it doesn’t work, it’s no big deal. I don’t–I’m a roofer, I have a roofing company, which is aka Professional Tanning. [pause] You missed that, huh?

BM: That’s great, I love that. [laughs]

DR: [laughs] He’s a roofer, he’s a professional tanner. You know, margarita and a frickin’ lounge chair. “Hey go get that row. That row’s crooked. Straighten up there, buddy! Jesus, I’ll have to fire your ass!” So you know, it’s only that through my company where we were able to fund this. And you know, be able to make it happen. Yeah, ‘cause we got no love from the labels, we got no love from anybody. You know, everybody said we were finished and done and over the hill, you know, just live off your history. And me and Geoff said, you know, “Fuck that shit, man. There’s still miles of music left in us. And now we’re a little bit older.” And that was the weird thing for me, we got older and we wrote heavier. That’s weird, you know, I mean, no one does that.

BM: Yeah.

DR: And even people that work with us, they said, “Dude, you’re not gonna be able to top “Rise or Fall,” or frickin’ “Gypsies and Thieves” and you know, “Black Knight” and all that junk.” And they heard the record, and they go, “Dude. This is good.” [laughs] “You guys are good, you proved me wrong. You still got it.”

BM: So how does this feel to have accomplished this? Is this like a big thing for you, or is it just one thing along a string of a whole bunch of them? Do you have a great feeling from this album?

DR: I’m fully satisfied with the song writing, I’m fully satisfied with the performances on the record. I’m still concerned that we can’t rehearse as much as I’d like and get this thing nailed down to where we come to the shows, and we, you know, just kill it. If this thing takes off, we’re going to be able to get into our top performance and be able to smoke.

BM: So, between now and ProgPower in September, are you guys getting together a lot to rehearse?

DR: Yeah, me and Geoff and the bass player are. The guitar player right now lives in Texas and Wade lives in Florida, and we got three shows the weekend before ProgPower. Or I guess two weekends before ProgPower, we’re gonna you know, play together as a band. And then when we come to ProgPower, we’re gonna sit in the studio for a full day and make sure that we can deliver. Work out any problems that we have reproducing what we’re doing.

BM: Well, of the albums, of the groups that are out there right now, do you listen to any of them? Are any of them like inspiration to you, or do you pretty much keep focused on Leatherwolf and don’t listen to other things?

DR: I don’t really listen to that much other kind of music. Geoff does, he’s got his finger on certain bands, like Children of Bodom. He likes the guys that are just phenomenal guitar players, and that write melodies, that are actually good musicians.

BM: Oh yeah.

DR: And that was one, that was up on the top. And there were a couple more that he was saying he really liked. I’m not sure what Wade listens to and what Eric does.

BM: How does–

DR: But even writing these songs, it wasn’t like we were trying to be somebody else or trying to copy some other style. We just sat down and you know, Geoff would come up with a melody, or he would sit in his room for a few days and come up with some melodies, and we would piece them together, I mean a rhythm. And he would sit back and come up with the melodies.

BM: I was gonna ask you something about your earlier albums. At one point on your web site you had them remastered, rereleased, first three CDs. Are those still around anymore? or are they out of print?

DR: No, I got ‘em.

BM: You still have them for sale?

DR: Mmhm.

BM: Do you really? Wow?

DR: Yeah.

BM: How could someone get a hold of them, like myself? How do I get them from, do you have like a web site where you sell them?

DR: You just go to Leatherwolf music [www.leatherwolfmusic.com], and then you e-mail the web master, and then you place the order, and you pay for it, and we send them out to you. We get some random ones. It’s not like a big demand. There’s more of a demand in Europe.

BM: Cool. Well, I’ll do that then. I like the downloads here and there, the couple of tracks you feature from each one. It sounds great. I love that sound, by the way. I love the old Leatherwolf sound a lot. I like the new one too, but there’s something about that sound from the ’80s for example, maybe I’m just stuck there, but I love that guitar sound. There’s a tone and a style back then that I really enjoy. So it’d be great–

DR: Well, yeah. Those all, Mike and Carey [Howe, guitarist] got together, it’s just some chemistry, you know? I mean, it’s rare you get guys that have known each other for frickin’, I mean that stay together for the length that they did and you know, write music. I’m sure they got, it’s like a friendship, you’ve got something special.

BM: Do you still keep in touch with the guys?

DR: Yeah. I talk to Mikey all the time, we’re in the middle of trying to make a greatest hits Leatherwolf record, and update the recordings, and just re-record our like, 14 favorite songs. And rerelease a record.

BM: This is looking pretty good then. I like what I’m hearing. It sounds like it could be a turning point musically. If this think keeps going the way it’s going with reviews and sales and everything. How are sales going, by the way?

DR: I’m not sure. It’s only been out for a month so we don’t really know. I see tons of reviews, and there’s tons of good ones and tons of bad ones.

BM: [laughs]

DR: Everyone’s comparing it to the old Leatherwolf. So some of the ones that are stuck in “Hideaway” and “The Calling” days, that was their favorite Leatherwolf song, so they’re kinda not liking the new stuff.

BM: Well, for somebody like me who only heard a little bit of Leatherwolf in the ’80s, I’m hearing this brand new, I’m liking what I’m hearing just for what it is now. I have nothing to compare it to. It sounds as good as or better than anything out there, so if anything ought to make it, it ought to be this.

DR: Well, are there any other records out this year you like, metal wise?

BM: A lot of bands that are going to be at ProgPower have some great albums out. Mercenary’s got a great sound.

DR: Yeah.

BM: Great band.

DR: So where would you put this record compared to their record?

BM: It’s got a different tonality to it. Mikkel Sandager has a great voice. More melodic than Wade’s perhaps. He can do the growly thing or the screaming thing, but he’s got a really nice melodic voice as well. And their guitar tone is considered one of the best in metal.
DR: Yeah.

BM: They have some good arrangements. They’ve been around longer as a band than this incarnation of Leatherwolf, so they’ve got a leg up on ya.

DR: Yeah. Well, see that’s the thing, is Geoff and I wrote and played most everything on that record, except for the singing. And that was all written mainly by Geoff. So it’s not like somebody new came in and wrote stuff. So that’s one of the good things about it. It stayed more close to Leatherwolf’s style. It wasn’t an outside writer coming in adding their flavor. Which might have been better or it might have been worse.

BM: [laughs] Tell me about the cover of this album. I’ll just ask you another question, then I’ll let you get back to life there. But how involved were you with choosing the artwork for the cover?

DR: Geoff and I were both involved, and we just went to a–we had on the internet, we had a couple of guys sending us some stuff. And it was ok. But at the end of the day, we talked to Joe Floyd, the warrior dude who’s our friend who helped mix one of the songs and record some of the vocals. And he turned us on to this guy named Richard. And Richard, we went and sat with him, and we told him what we wanted. We wanted something about good and evil, and it started off with having someone walking a tightrope, and you know, with good on one side and evil on the other side. And then we thought, “Well, “King of the Ward” might be the name of the album.” So someone in an insane asylum, who, he’s gone beyond his own knowledge of how miserable his life is, and he’s actually, he’s the king. And so, we just told him that, and then we came back a week later, and that was the drawing right there. And then you look at his face, and it’s like he’s saying, “I am the king.”

BM: [laughs] Yeah.

DR: [laughs] “I am the king.”

BM: Yeah.

DR: And we go, “Dude, that’s killer. It’s simple, you know, it relates to the record.” So that was the cover. We put the grail on the back, to be, you know, the hopeful side of it.

BM: [laughs] Well it is, it’s a striking cover. It’s a little creepy. It reminds me of the Iron Maiden cover, what was it, The X Factor. Something like that. It is an interesting cover.

DR: Well, yeah. I mean, he’s, it’s like you start looking at it and you can’t stop looking at it, you know? It draws you in, and you’re like, “Holy Jesus, I can’t sleep in the same room with that record.”

BM: [laughs]

DR: “I’ve gotta put in somewhere that’s safe or it’s gonna come get me.” [laughs]

BM: [laughs]

DR: You know what I mean?

BM: Yeah.

DR: You’re just going, “Wow, that’s weird.” It’s weird and it’s rare to get a drawing that just, you’re just like, just sucks you right in.

BM: [laughs] Well, do you guys have some more music in you right now? What, whether or not you do another album, are you like energized and creating something right now? Do you have ideas for something else?

DR: We haven’t been sitting down, thinking about the next record. We’re just trying to keep this thing together in case it does take off, so we can actually go out and you know, perform it as it should be performed. And Geoff, he’s a phenomenal songwriter, so he’s got tons of stuff in his bag, you know? So we’re not really worried about coming up with other stuff.

BM: Good.

DR: So we’ve got tons of stuff, if things do work out.

BM: Well let’s hope it does, then. I’d like to see the next album from you guys.

DR: Yeah.

BM: [laughs] And you would too, I bet, huh?

DR: Well, it would be nice to, you know, make money playing music instead of tanning, you know?

BM: [laughs]

DR: ‘Cause there’s always the risk of cancer, you know?

BM: Yeah, well, that’s true.

DR: Yeah. Especially with this weather.

BM: Yeah, wasn’t it hotter than hell out there right now, is that the deal?

DR: Oh, it’s way too hot. I did a job in LA, and it was just frickin’ brutal. You had to keep moving or your feet would burn.

BM: Geeze!

DR: It was just that hot on the roof.

BM: Well, yeah, I don’t envy that. The tanning part would be cool, but, you know, dying in the heat, I’m not into that. [laughs]

DR: Who is? But I got bills to pay.

BM: Yeah, that’s true, that’s true. Well, Dean, I appreciate your time this evening. I’ll transcribe it and put it up on the Notes From the Other Side web site, and let the ProgPower people know on their forum. But…

DR: Hey, did you grab one of the pictures from that web site?

BM: Yeah, I think so. I’ve got them here, I’ve got them in my e-mails right here. I’m going to post them up on the Notes site, if that’s all right with you.

DR: Which picture did you pick?

BM: Well, let me see. I’ve got them right here, let me take a look. There was one you sent me of you guys out looking at a vast audience, a shot from behind you looking out. Where was that taken?

DR: That was Bang Your Head.

BM: Wow, what was it like to play that?

DR: It was just fun, you know. Once again, I wasn’t really thinking about that, I was more concerned about just nailing the songs, you know, playing them good.

BM: [laughs]

DR: ‘Cause it was the first time that band’s ever played in front of a crowd like that. We’d only played two other shows prior, you know? And you know, we rehearsed for a week, played two shows and went to Europe to play that show. So I just was concerned that we played it well, you know?

BM: Well, let me look through those pictures again, I’ll let you know which one looks cool and I’ll put it up.

DR: Yeah, call me, and I’ll give you more. If you need like a 300 dpi, let me know, and I’ll show you where to get them.

BM: That would be great. That’d be really cool, to get some. I’d like to post as many as you have to give me, I’ll put them up on the site.

DR: Well here, let me forward something to you.

BM: Ok. Dean, I appreciate your time.

DR: Yeah, thank you.

BM: Thank you. Bye bye.

DR: Bye.

You can find Leatherwolf CDs by visiting their official web site, which is www.leatherwolfmusic.com, or by visiting Amazon. And, of course, for the real deal, be sure to be at the ProgPowerUSA Pre-Party show put together by the one and only Shane Dubose. Leatherwolf is hungry and ready to kick some major booty!

Well, the guys in Zero Hour outdid themselves. Again.

Obviously battling hard to unseat Shane DuBose as The Nicest Man in Metal, brothers Jasun and Troy Tipton and Chris Salinas (3/4 of California’s mighty Zero Hour) spent the past few days typing up a track-by-track analysis of their soon-to-be-released CD Specs of Pictures Burnt Beyond. Last night, Jasun sent me the last installment via e-mail.

For all of you eager to experience Zero Hour’s blistering set at ProgPower USA VII, I think you’ll be twice as stoked once you see what Troy, Jasun, and Chris have to say about their CD (the name of the person who wrote each analysis is in parenthesis). Here’s what’s what, straight from the fingertips of the guys who created it:

Specs of Pictures Burnt Beyond is about Specific events, memories caught in time by a photo. Visualizing the dynamic changes you’ve experienced in time. As you get older your memory fades and so do the pictures.

Track List:

1. Face The Fear

2. The Falcon’s Cry

3. Embrace

4. Specs of Pictures Burnt Beyond

5. Zero Hour

6. I Am Here

7. Evidence of the Unseen

“Face the Fear”

“Face the Fear” is a song on which Troy and I got together and collaborated. This song is basically about facing your fears in life, however difficult they may be. Everybody runs into a roadblock in his/her life eventually. This song is about that. It’s about the difficulty of overcoming this fear. In two days it was dialed and ready to record. This song will always remind me of picking Troy up at the airport in San Antonio and the cool time we had working on this song. Metal. (Chris Salinas)

“The Falcon’s Cry”

While I was in Oregon, Shawn Ames and I drove to the top of these beautiful green mountains. We had to drive up this steep and narrow trail to get to the top. Once we did, we got out of the truck and looked over the edge. The view was breathtaking. It made us feel small and we were scared to get to close to the edge. After the long drive back down the mountain we went back to Shawn’s house and started working on the lyrics. We actually started working on the clean part of the song first. I started singing “At last I can breathe, At last I can see.” From there the song took shape. The story begins with an old man’s hike up to the top of the mountain. Along the way he battles predators and becomes more and more tired and cold from hiking throughout the night. Eventually he makes it to the top of the mountain and falls down to his knees in awe from the beautiful view surrounding him. He closes his eyes and raises his hands to touch the sky. As the water runs below, the falcon cries.

My buddy Manuel’s father has been dealing with Parkinson’s disease for years. The shaking got worse and worse and before all of this he use to love riding his motorcycle up to the mountains. One day he decided to buy a motorcycle so he can take a ride up the hill again. He wanted to prove to himself that he could still do it. He took the ride and when he made it to the top he started to cry. He was so happy that he was able to make that ride one more time. (Troy Tipton)

“Embrace”

“Embrace” is an exotic instrumental that includes a great mix of many structures to create its sound. The acoustic guitar chord structure gives you a Middle Eastern-vibe and is layered with a Chinese scale, harmonized with a Pentatonic that extends into an octave inversion of these scale formats. For me using these different styles into one song creates a beautiful melody that goes deep into my ears and all my attention is directed to the music. Chris brings another element later into the song with his chanting. With a song that already had so much movement, Chris brings another wave with his voice to circulate the highest point. I’m very proud of how this came together. (Jasun Tipton)

“Specs Of Pictures Burnt Beyond”

This song was actually the first to capture my imagination. Specs of Pictures is meant to be “parts of memories.” Burnt Beyond means “lost and forgotten, or maybe too unbearable to remember,or the mind blocks them out.” I went through a very difficult time in my marriage right before I joined Zero Hour. I almost lost it. That is where the inspiration for this song came about. I love the power this song puts out both musically and vocally. (Chris Salinas)

“Zero Hour”

“Zero Hour” is something Troy, Mike and I jammed out in the studio and it really wrote itself. Troy and I start out with an exotic pattern and halfway through the segment Troy bounces out to follow the drums. The 2nd to the last part Mikey follows the double muting segment that Troy and myself provide with an amazing twist of patterns that are very articulate, separated and in sync. In the very last segment the guitars provide an awkward harmony while Troy rolls out two-octave arpeggios on the bass, tapping the sixth and seventh intervals. (Jasun Tipton)

“I Am Here”

Growing up in my late teens, I discovered I had a condition. It was anxiety. I had my first attack when I was nineteen and, let me tell you, it’s no fun. You feel like the world is ending, it’s so terrible. I have struggled with this since then and dealt with it. But it was a fight. When Jasun and Troy said, “This is your song Bud, have fun wit it” this is what I came up with. Such a beautiful guitar tone and simple melody, it brought out these smooth simple vocal melodies. So I write about it and here it is. A battle I will not lose. (Chris Salinas)

“Evidence of The Unseen”

The lyrics to “Evidence of the Unseen” were written by Shawn Ames. I would say the lyrics are based on his commitment to his wife and two boys, with a spiritual connection tied into the lyrics (Shawn is very much into his religious beliefs). The impossible dream of giving the ones you love and care about most the World. To let these feelings inside drive you every day of your life by just believing. (Jasun Tipton)

Thanks again for your time and generosity Jasun, Troy, and Chris. I simply can’t wait to see these songs performed live!

Zero Hour was quickly added to this year’s ProgPowerUSA lineup when the visas for Greek band Wastefall didn’t materialize and the band had to cancel. A bittersweet moment for Zero Hour and their fans, to be sure. But the band stepped up to the plate with typical good-naturedness, class, and exuberance.

Talking to Jasun is like having a conversation with The Simpsons’ Otto the bus driver as he channels motivational speaker Tony Robbins. Lots of energy. Lots of “Dude” and “Awesome” and “Bro.” Yes, Jasun’s enthusiasm can’t be denied. Neither can his talent. The man is a certified guitar monster and he – along with his twin brother Troy on bass, drummer Mike Guy and new vocalist Chris Salinas – are ready to storm the stage at ProgPowerUSA VII.

In this interview, I was fortunate to be able to speak to both Jasun and Troy, who picked up the phone near the end of my interview with Jasun.

JT: Hello?

BM: Is this Jason?

JT: Yeah, hey. This must be Bill.

BM: This is Bill, yes indeed.

JT: Hey, how you doin’, man?

BM: Good, doing well. How are you?

JT: I’m doin’ good, man, doin’ real good. Just staying busy, you know what I mean, [laughs], is all I’m doin’. How ’bout you on your part? That’s–I mean, I guess you’re taking care of all the interviews for ProgPower, huh?

BM: Yeah, and I didn’t even intend to, actually. I approached Glenn probably back in February or March and told him, “I’d like to do something for ProgPowerUSA this year.” He said, “Why don’t you do a behind-the-scenes report of some kind.” I gave that some thought, got with my web designer, and created the Notes From The Other Side web site. I thought a laid-back interview style would give people a chance to get to know the people behind the music. And behind the festival itself. It wasn’t until later that Glenn and Deron decided to use my interviews for the official PPUSA program. But Glenn pretty much gave me carte blanche.

JT: Oh wow! That’s fantastic. Yeah.

BM: I really like Glenn’s style and music savvy. So when he says my interviews are some of the best he’s read, I take that as a huge compliment.

JT: Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely. Well, really cool, man. Nice, nice, nice. Did you want me to call you, man? Is this gonna charge you a call or anything, ’cause I have free phone–

BM: It’s not going to matter either way. I appreciate that, ’cause all I have is a cell phone. We got rid of our landline when we got cable internet access. So it doesn’t really–

JT: Ok. Right on, dude. I am on, not on this line, but the other line that i could call you, and I got all this, you know I could call anywhere. It doesn’t cost me one extra cent, it’s all for the same price.

BM: If you’d like to, if you have a different phone you’d like to use, go ahead.

JT: Oh no, this one will work fine. I just don’t want you to get charged for the phone call or anything like that.

BM: Oh, that’s ok. It’s fine. Actually, I’ve got one of these cell phone plans with the rollover minutes, and I think between me and my wife, we’ve accumulated 4000 rollover minutes. We’ll never be able to use them all. [laughs]

JT: [laughs]

BM: We’ve got enough rollover minutes, we could talk to everybody in the world for a week.

JT: Yeah, exactly. I have the same plan. So, I mean, on this phone I must have just a ton of rollover minutes. So this number, what I do is I give it to my guitar students and then my fiancée has it, because she was the one who got me the phone, so there you go. [laughs] That’s how it works.

BM: Yeah, I hear ya.

JT: There you go, man. So–

BM: Well, I appreciate your time. This is real short notice, so I’m glad you worked me into your schedule.

JT: Oh, no problem, man, no problem.

BM: Tell me about your new album, specs of pictures burnt beyond. I don’t have a promo copy of your CD so I don’t know what the track listing is or anything. I know what the artwork is. I’m looking at it on your site right now.

JT: Yeah.

BM: You’ve got Chris Salinas as the singer now. I’ve heard a clip. Holy cow. The guy sounds like Geoff Tate in his younger days. Chris is a great vocalist.

JT: Yeah, he’s REALLY good, man. We’re really happy to have Chris. And I mean it’s just nice, ’cause he’s a breath of fresh air for us. In the past, we’ve always had kind of–and maybe it’s just a lack of focus with maybe the vocalist we’ve had–where, you know, Erik [Rosvold], we had, he was a great singer and just a great writer as well, and I got along great with Erik. But the problem is, unfortunately, he just–his mom passed away from Leukemia, and he just dived himself into a pretty dark time for himself. And, when we were talking to him, saying, “Hey,” you know, after a year went by and saying, “Hey, we need to get this album going.” “Yeah, this would be good for me to get out of the rut I’m in right now and just start getting things going for myself. This would be good.” And we had the music done like two years before he, you know, even had half of the album tracked. And it just got to the point where, it just felt like he was never gonna finish it. And he just was through a dark period. So we had to move on with another singer.

BM: Is that–are you talking about A Fragile Mind and picking up Fred Marshall [vocalist] for that?

JT: Yeah. And that was a whole different thing right there. You know, that one, that one, wow. I can just say that was an unpleasant experience, is all I’m gonna say to that one.

BM: [laughs]

JT: I’m gonna be as professional as I can be on that one, you know what I’m saying? [laughs]

BM: Well, there’s some good questions along these lines I was gonna ask you about, your first album–well, just the self-title in 1999, that was pretty well received. And I know it was later repackaged by Ken [Golden, Sensory] and re-mastered and re-released it as Metamorphosis.

JT: Yeah.

BM: The Towers of Avarice seems to have blown everyone away. That’s like the benchmark album. Really cool.

JT: I know. I know, yeah.

BM: Reading some reviews of A Fragile Mind, it’s like, “Huh?” You know, somehow some fans didn’t get it. Or didn’t like it. What about that album do you think didn’t click with fans?

JT: Well, I think everybody loved Erik’s vocals, for one. And Erik did bring a lot to the table on that. So Towers and Metamorphosis were definitely very focused albums. And you know, to me, A Fragile Mind has great riffing and great music about it, and I mean, I don’t–how do you–I guess the problem is, when you have something going on for that long, the focus…that was a big blur, that time period for us. I mean, because we had our tracks done for that album, gosh, I wanna say in late 2002. And then you’re waiting for your vocalist to get things going, and it’s just not happening. I mean, the CD ends up coming out in 2005, you know, [laughs] so that’s a lot of time to be just down on something. And you know, there’s a lot of great music on that thing.

BM: Oh yeah, I agree with you.

JT: And I mean, yeah. I mean, if everybody, hey, if they buy it and they don’t like it, they have the right to say whatever they want about it. Because they purchased with their money, so I don’t have anything against them in that way. And people, you know, and when they’re respectful, you know, people have just not liked Zero Hour from the beginning, and they’ve all looked to bash at us, and there’s just nothing you can do about that. You can be like, “Well this guy’s never gonna like us, and I’m surprised he’s still picking up our albums.” [laughs] But you know, and just, that’s the best was I can say it. Maybe the focus, when it’s drawn out for that long, we were in a bit of a blur. It wasn’t that–I thought we had really strong music, I know when we laid that down. And I’ve also heard many different versions of these songs, which is crazy. I mean of course you’ve got like, Erik’s version, and then there were some written versions that we were trying to put together that didn’t even go through. And then you add Fred, and it just gets to the point, you’re like, “Wow”, you wanted to get the album done, at the same time you get that sort of half done for yourself. But I can’t say that we rushed it, because we really did put a lot of hard work into that album. It just happened through so many years. And things change, you know, people were waiting for another album from us, and Fragile Mind was not an easy album, you know what I mean?

BM: In the interim period between Towers and Fragile Mind, [the band] Death Machine emerged. Was that something to fill a gap? Or was that running concurrently with Zero Hour anyway?

JT: Well, it was to fill a gap in the sense to play live. We never looked to get signed with Death Machine. It was really just an accident how that all came about. This guy just said, “Hey”, you know. He was a good friend of mine, just a funny guy, and it was just great to see. He always had a really great attitude. You know, which was something that was very refreshing compared to what we had. You know what I mean? Because, this guy was naive, but just such a cool cat. I mean, he’d go, “Let’s just go out and just barrel everyone and play live and just enjoy it.” And we’re like, we were sidelined anyway due to Erik, so we’re like, “This will keep our chops up, but also allow for us to play live.” And it was a good thing for us, ‘cause it kinda kept us sane. You know, we were waiting for Erik, and nothing happening, so you try to fill that void. And we started playing out, and people were saying, “Man, you guys should really do a demo.” And we’re like, “Yeah, I guess so, we’ll do a demo.” And then, all of a sudden, you know, people–it was being played on all the local radio shows here, it was doing really well. And also, that kind of, the music style was kind of coming, that was kind of in at the time, you know when we were doing that. And we were just out having fun. We never took it like, “Hey, you know, this is our band.” Because Zero Hour has always been our baby. You know, we’ve always love that. But at the same time, you need to have all the members feeling the same way, where you just go, you know. I’d loved Erik’s voice for so–I loved his voice, is basically what happened. And we waited as long as we could, you know? But at some point, you know, you have to go on. So I guess that’s the best way to answer that.

BM: That’s a great answer. How did you hook up with Chris Salinas? How did you guys get together?

JT: I just remember when I saw Chris Salinas at ProgPower in Chicago, the very first one. And we talked to him, and he was THE nicest guy. And then I heard him sing. I mean, you hear him sing live, and he hits everything. You’re like, “Ok, this guy is amazing.” You can tell he’s pretty smooth in the studio. He records quick because he knows what he’s doin’. You know what I mean? And he really uses, he’s really serious about his instrument, in vocals. I mean, that guy, when he recorded for us, it was the fastest of anyone we’ve ever had go in there, and he just knocked it out so easy. I was like, “Wow.” It was pretty impressive. And when we heard him sing live, we said, “Man, you know, that’s a guy we would love to have.” You know what I mean? Of course, we loved Erik, but when you saw what he did that night, and how cool he was, and how he really loved, just, he was really into doing the music, and I just was like, “Wow, this guy’s the real deal. He would be someone–” But he’s always been in Power of Omens. So when we approached him, we were going through a little, you know, we were working with other people trying to find the right vocalist. And we always said, I remember Mike said, “We should get Chris.” And I said, “Yeah, but he’s in Power of Omens. You know, what I’ll do is call Chris and ask if he can do live shows with us.” So I made the call to Chris–and you’re the first one to get all this info–but you know, I called Chris. And I said, “Chris, you know, I know you’re in Power of Omens, man, and I’m not”–And I can be really honest about this, we didn’t go in with the intention of taking Chris out of Power of Omens. We did not, you know what I mean? We just said, “Man, we have some East Coast dates that we can do, and we’ve been asked to do this festival. We need someone to live, man.” ‘Cause we already knew Fred was just not gonna work out. And so, at that time he said, “Yeah, man, I would love to do it. Send me the material.” And at the time we were working with Shawn Ames. And we sent over some tracks to Chris that he did, — it was “Falcon’s Cry” and “Evidence of the Unseen” — and I tell ya, man. You know, Shawn Aimes is a very good writer, but he couldn’t sing those songs anywhere–no one could sing those songs anywhere close to where Chris was. Chris knew how to put together the timing, his voice sounded just fluid, he added things where his voice was going higher. And it’s just nice, because he has that low end, he has a middle voice, and high. Usually singers, when you’re dealing with them in the studio, there is that problem area. It’s not for Chris. Chris can actually hit all these things. And when talking with Chris, Chris was all, “Look, man, Power of Omens is not happening. You’re like one of my favorite bands, I want to do this with you guys.”

BM: Really?

JT: And I was like–yeah, it just came out like this. He’s just all, “Dude, I’ve loved you guys. I’ve been waiting for this call for like over a year.” [laughs]

BM: [laughs]

JT: I started laughing, I’m like, “Really?” And I was shocked. So I didn’t know how to go about this. I went and talked to the guys. I’m like, “You know, it’s really strange, but Chris said, you know, ‘Hey, we should do this together.’” And all the guys go, “Well, let’s do it, because he’s the guy.” And so, because we knew we’d make a great album with this guy, and he would listen to what we–you know, that’s the problem. A lot of singers, now Erik was cool about this for sure, but you can kind of add things up from here on out. He listened to what we talking about, and then we said, “Hey man, try this.” He didn’t get it, like, “You’re not hearing it the way I’m hearing it.” You know, someone tells you, “I’m here for you guys”, and you’ll hear, pretty much just selling everything, saying, “Hey, it’s gonna have all these harmonies, it’s gonna have all this.” And we’re saying, “No, you should be doing it like this.” And he’s saying, “No, you’re not hearing it the way I’m hearing it.” And we’re like, “Wait a second, you said you’re here for us.”

BM: Yeah.

JT: “What’s going on all of a sudden, you know? I think we know.” You know what I mean? And Chris was just like, “Anything you guys want. You just let me know, because I want this”–you know, it felt like a band. It wasn’t like–I want us to put together the best Zero Hour there is, and I just love his attitude, and he’s just with us, he’s like, “let’s go do everything we can.” Before, we could never do that. We were like sidelined, you know, we’re asked to do certain tours and stuff like that, and we’re sidelined because Erik said, “Oh no, can’t do it.” Or something like that. Now, we’re all full-force and we can go do things.

BM: Holy cow, that’s amazing.

JT: Yeah, it’s really an amazing story, and redemption for us, man. ‘Cause I tell ya, this new album, you know, I’m just really excited about it. I love it, and I can honestly listen to it and say, “Oh, this is–” And you know, you can listen to certain songs and you keep rewinding them and rewinding them, like, “I didn’t get enough of that one, I didn’t get enough of that one.” And it’s, this album is truly special, and I feel it’s like, it’s got that power sort of–I’m not gonna say it’s like–it does have, everything’s gonna sound like Zero Hour at some point. Even, like, you know Fragile Mind, it sounds like Zero Hour, you know what I mean? But the thing is, it does have that vibe where you’re like, “Ok, there’s something in the air, something there, it’s just grabbing me, it’s grabbing me and it’s making me hold on and just keep listening.” And Towers was that way, and this album is definitely that way too.

BM: Cool. So it sounds like you guys have a rebirth of sorts. I mean, everything feels alive and fresh again for you?

JT: That’s a great analogy. It’s the perfect way of saying it. We are reborn, and we feel, I mean, we’re just ready to go everything again. We’re just so pumped about this album, and we’re ready to do–you know, it’s so, you know, we’re not getting any younger–[laughs]

BM: [laughs]

JT: –and we, you know, the time is now for us. And we love doing this, and we just love doing music, you know? So if we can take as many opportunities as we can, this is what we’re going to do. I love music, and obviously, this is not a genre where you’re gonna make a lot of money or anything of that nature, it’s obviously, we do it for the love of music. And we love our fans, and we love to play out. And hell, you know, I’ve been doing it for this long, and I can’t see–it would definitely be a piece of me taken away if I didn’t do Zero Hour.

BM: Oh yeah.

JT: Yeah. Hopefully you’ll fix this up. I know I’m kinda going–there’s so much you wanna say, ’cause there’s so much that’s happened over the years for Zero Hour. You know what I’m saying? So… [laughs]

BM: You can say anything you want, ’cause I can transcribe this. I don’t know if you’ve looked at my Notes from the Other Side site or not, but my interviews are basically word-for-word. Whatever you say, people are gonna read, so you can say anything you want, man.

JT: Yeah, yeah.

BM: [laughs] It’s your time to shine here.

JT: Well, if you see anything where I really need to gather my words up, if you can make me sound a little better, [laughs], I’d appreciate that. What I liked about your interviews is they flowed real nice.

BM: Oh yeah. But I don’t like to edit too much because that takes away from the personality of the person I’m interviewing. It makes every interview ready like it’s me talking. I like to keep things as pure as possible.

JT: There’s so much I wanna say, maybe I might cut into something else, that I’m saying it over again. Maybe there’s some way you can fix it.

BM: No, some of the things you’re saying are kind of preceding my questions, so we’re thinking on the same track here. That’s great, I like that.

JT: Ok. Cool, nice nice nice.

BM: Tell me about let’s say the three main albums of your career, not counting the first one or Metamorphosis, but Towers, Fragile Mind and Pictures–what comes to mind when you think of each of those points in your life? What’s the first thing that comes to mind?

JT: Well, Towers was a dark, cold time for us, because we had so many promises from labels that were gonna put out the first album, and we were selling the first album on our own, and we were doing really well off it. And they said, you know, “You need to stop selling these CDs, and we’re gonna sign you guys.” And we’re like, “Send us a contract.” You know what I mean? And then they would send us contracts, and all of a sudden it’s like, ok, we’re doing the negotiations, and we get everything negotiated verbally. But as soon as they set something in writing, it was like, it’s the same contract, maybe one thing was different, you know what I mean? And it was like, “Man, who do you trust? It’s like, are we talking to the same people who verbally were talking with us about the contract and people who are writing it? Is it two different people? ‘Cause it sure seems like it with the conversations we had. So, we were thinking, man, so at that time we really dived into our music, and it was a cold period for us, ’cause we were frustrated. Now, A Fragile Mind, to me, all I can say is that’s a real blur of a time, ’cause there was a lot of things going on with the band. And you know, my brother struggling with tendonitis, and he had to go to many doctors to try to get things taken care of for himself. He almost had to quit playing bass, and that was real difficult for me, because, well, “You’re my best friend, and I just can’t see playing music with anybody else.” I mean, Zero Hour started with him, Mikey and I. You know what I mean? And they’re the rhythm section, and with me in there, we’ve been doing this for over 12 years. You know what I mean, so it was a very difficult time. Also with Erik, and then things that went on with A Fragile Mind with Fred. It was a [laughs], it was a bit of a blur, man. And you know, I have to say this in a good way, we did that album, and I feel it was a good album, and I’m glad it’s done. Because it also makes you, it was just a chapter we had to get done so we could get this album done. You know, the way it is, and the