By all accounts, Theocracy’s self-titled debut album is a tour-de-force. Virtually every instrument is played by Matt Smith, all compositions are by Matt Smith, and Matt even provides the vocals — an astounding achievement for a first-time recording artist.What does Theocracy sound like? Majestic, rich, eclectic – all driven by slabs of melodic power metal guitar riffs, multi-layered vocals and blistering solos (often with a few tips of the hat to classical composers along the way).
In this interview, I chatted with Athens, Georgia, resident Matt Smith about a wide variety of topics – from Fox TV show 24 to ABC’s Lost to the spiritual foundations of Theocracy to what audiences can expect from when Matt’s three-piece band kicks off the Pre-Party show at ProgPowerUSA VII.
Enjoy.
MS: Hello?
BM: Hi, is this Matt?
MS: Yeah.
BM: Hey, this is Bill Murphy.
MS: Hey, Bill, what’s up, man?
BM: How you doin’ today?
MS: Pretty good, how ‘bout you?
BM: Not bad. What kind of weather you got down there?
MS: It’s gettin’ hot. Went straight into the hot Georgia summer it seems.
BM: Oh really? Actually, we had that too. Up here in Grand Rapids, it got close to 90. That’s ridiculous for this place.
MS: Really? Wow. Yeah, it’s, I mean, we had a fairly nice spring and everything. It’s only in the last week or two it’s really, really started getting hot.
BM: Sounds like you have kind of the same weather pattern.
MS: Yeah. I appreciate you working with me on the time and everything.
BM: Hey, no problem. It’s my pleasure. Actually worked out pretty good, ‘cause we had some things to do today, and we just kind of hung out. And I’ve been spending the evening listening to Theocracy, of course. It’s great.
MS: Yeah, there you go! [laughs]
BM: [laughs] You know what? Here’s the burning question, Matt. What did you think of the season finale of 24?
MS: I loved it!
BM: Yeah?
MS: Yeah. I thought the whole season was really good. There were a couple of episodes before the finale that were a little weaker, but just like some things seemed uncharacteristic. Like Jack not making a copy of the recording.
BM: Yeah!
MS: Things like that, you know? Normally I try not to be too nit picky or whatever, but those kind of bug me. But I thought the finale was really good.
BM: Yeah, it’s just too bad now he’s gonna have another real bad day. [laughs]
MS: That’s right. Good news for us, though. Bad news for him, but good news for us, I guess.
BM: [laughs]
MS: What’d you think? Did you enjoy it?
BM: Yeah, we [my wife and I] got really hooked on just a couple of shows this season. We don’t watch a lot of TV, but we watch a couple shows: 24, Lost, and American Idol.
MS: Ah, there you go.
BM: There it is.
MS: I watch 24 and Lost too. I’m a giant 24 fan, as any of my friends will tell you, I’m sure. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MS: I thought the Lost finale was pretty good too. I wasn’t that crazy about this second season of Lost, overall. But I enjoyed the finale.
BM: Yeah, that’s the way we felt, actually. The second season didn’t seem to be quite as sharp somehow. Maybe they drew it out too long, maybe it got too fragmented, I don’t know.
MS: Yeah, well it kind of seemed to me, I said going into it to a friend of mine, it seemed like they, I guess now, during season one it became such a huge phenomenon, and they were like, “well, we’ve got to stretch this thing out.” [laughs] And kind of going into it this season, it seemed like they came up with a really good beginning and a really good ending, and a lot of the middle was kind of just padded. That’s kind of how it seemed to me.
BM: Yeah, the ending, the finale was good, I thought. But boy, they left as many questions unanswered or raised as many questions as it answered, and now I’m not even sure. It’s going to be so fragmented next year, I have no idea what’s going to happen.
MS: I agree, I agree.
BM: I’ll watch it, though. Just like you probably will. We’ll see.
MS: Yep, that’s a cool premise.
BM: I appreciate you taking the time this evening to chat with me.
MS: No problem, man. I’m happy to.
BM: Well tell me about your first album. What amazes me, actually, is you’re credited with doing everything on it. That’s an amazing accomplishment, especially since it’s such a phenomenal album.
MS: Well, thank you.
BM: I can’t tell what I like best, the guitar playing, the singing, or the production. It’s hard for me to choose. [laughs]
MS: [laughs]
BM: How long did it take you, from start to finish, to put this album together?
MS: I think it was about a year and a half, if I remember right. And that was like not all in a row, like there were breaks here and there. I go for a couple of weeks and not be able to work on it, so realistically it’s hard to say. But start to finish, I’d say a year and a half’s about what it took.
BM: How did you know you could do all these things? [laughs] When you’re the only one doing all this to record an album, how did you know you could produce it? How did you know you could program drums, play bass, play guitar, sing. What gave you the confidence to know you could just do a whole album yourself?
MS: Well, it wasn’t that as much as that was kind of the only way it could happen. I mean, I’d had a couple of band members before, but the bass player moved off and went to college, and the drummer who I was playing with, he just vanished. I don’t even know where he is.
BM: Like a Spinal Tap drummer, was it?
MS: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was very Spinal Tap. I don’t know, I think he was moving to Atlanta or something and I called his roommates, and nobody knew where he was. So it was kind of back to square one. I wasn’t really thinking of it in the sense of, I’m doing everything myself or whatever. Because starting out, it wasn’t planning to be an official release, I was just demoing these new songs that I had written. And about halfway along that process, Deron Blevins, who started MetalAges, heard some of the older demos I had done or something and was interested in these. He said, “Hey, I want to put an album out, if you wanna do it.” So those demos kind of turned into the first album. So yeah, it was more out of necessity than anything else. I’d just always had to do that, it just ended up going a little bit bigger scale than originally planned. [laughs]
BM: Do you listen to the album yourself now and think, “wow, this is perfect.” Or do you listen to it and think, “oh man, I wish I would have done this differently.”
MS: It’s not so much anything I wish I had done differently, because I think it was the best for the time. It’s like in the couple years since then, I’ve really kind of expanded my studio and worked really hard on the production and the things, assisting in another studio here in town and I’ve gotten really into that side of it as a hobby. So from that standpoint, I hear a lot of things where I really didn’t know what I was doing. But it’s nothing I can blame myself for, it’s just that’s how life is. You learn and move on, and so I’m able to put all that knowledge into the new stuff, and keep moving forward.
BM: Where did the name of the band come from?
MS: Well, we’re a Christian band, as you probably know from the lyrics.
BM: Yeah, but there’s a lot of things you could have called it. How did you come up with Theocracy.
MS: Gosh, I’m trying to remember because I went so long without having a name.
BM: [laughs]
MS: I had no idea what to call it, weighing, and I knew I would eventually come up, something would come to me or whatever. Honestly, I don’t even remember how I got the idea, but it just kind of went along with the lyrics to the title track and whatnot. I thought it sounded cool and made a good band name. That was it.
BM: There it is. [laughs] Well, you said, I know it’s a Christian band — actually that’s one of the things I was going to ask you. If this is a Christian band, or if this is a band with Christians in it or do you see this as an evangelistic tool of sorts? What is your sort of vision and mission for Theocracy?
MS: Yeah, I definitely see an evangelistic side to it, and it’s not, I hope that it comes across that we’re definitely not into trying to ram stuff down people’s throats and be abrasive or force messages. It’s just kind of writing from the heart and hopefully people will latch onto it, and it’ll mean something to them. By the same token there are a lot of people who aren’t Christians or don’t identify with the lyrics, but they say they still really enjoy the albums, so that’s good too. So I guess it’s a little bit of both, just trying to make good music that I love and that means something to me, and hopefully means something to other people too.
BM: Did you grow up listening to other Christian bands? Did you grow up in a Christian home, did you become a Christian later, how did that happen?
MS: Yeah, I did grow up in a Christian home. Didn’t really listen to a lot of Christian bands though. I mean, there would be Christian music in the house, but it was more Gospel and that kind of thing. Most of the Christian rock or metal bands that I’d heard kind of, I just wasn’t very impressed, you know what I mean? Not that there wasn’t great stuff out there, I’m sure, but a lot of it to me sounded like just cheaper versions of whatever was popular at the moment. And I didn’t dig that. And then that was another thing that I wanted to do, put out Christian music that I liked, that I would like to listen to and that hopefully stood up, quality-wise to a lot of the other bands out there. And didn’t worry with trends and with trying to fit in and this and that. So hopefully, we’ve succeeded on that front.
BM: Well yeah, I think so. And you put that really well, because a lot of the Christian bands out there put the lyrics far ahead of the musicianship, so it’s very basic music augmenting very brazen lyrics. So it doesn’t bear repeated listening.
MS: Yeah, I agree. And it’s also like, it’s just a lot of the ones out here, it would immediately be, “Oh, they’re trying to sound just like Pearl Jam” or “they sound just like fill-in-the-blank.” I mean, I guess people could say that about us too, to an extent, but at least to me, I don’t think we sound just like any one band. I mean, you can definitely hear influences from different bands and different styles, but a lot of the other Christian music I’d heard seemed to almost not have a shred of originality behind it. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Yeah, that’s a good way to put that, actually, sadly. But you know, do you remember Stryper, bands like that?
MS: Yep. Mmhmm.
BM: Did you worry at all that Theocracy would fall into…well maybe it’s far past that time, but I remember when Stryper came out. Christians shunned them because they sounded way too worldly. And worldly music shunned them because it sounded too Christian, and they were screwed. Did you worry at all that Theocracy would sort of fall through the cracks somehow?
MS: I wouldn’t say I worried about it. I do think about it. I kind of wonder sometimes how-I don’t think it’s so much of an issue, being shunned from the Christian side for sounding too much like the other bands and this and that anymore. Hopefully nowadays people are a little more educated and open-minded about things like that. ‘Cause you know, I definitely grew up in the-my household was fine, but as far as like school and some other people I was around, they’d be real stringent about that kind of thing. I think, hopefully that’s kind of died down a bit. I was glad to see the response that we got from just music fans in general. Like I was saying earlier, people who don’t necessarily identify with the lyrics, I think at least the heart comes through. And that means a lot to people, and I think people have picked up on that, which is good, because I didn’t know if they would. But I think it’s worked out fine so far.
BM: Oh it’s great. It’s very uplifting, very cool music. It’s complex. That’s what I like about the musicianship. There’s enough going on that I could listen to it repeatedly and hear something different every time.
MS: Thank you.
BM: What do you say is your unique challenge? As a Christian band, what’s the most challenging thing you face?
MS: Well right now, it’s trying to get a steady lineup. We’re still looking for that other guitar player, and that’s a little bit of a pain. I don’t really think, at least so far, we haven’t faced a lot of things that are different from what most bands face. Dedication, and completing the lineup, and granted, for us, there is more to it, because it does have a ministry side to it as well. And anybody coming into the band, a lot of people wouldn’t want to be associated with that or just wouldn’t be interested. It’s a little bit different from just trying to find somebody who can play guitar or whatever.
BM: Well yeah, you’ve got kind of a double whammy there. You have to find a superb musician who’s also a Christian and sort of in line with your way of thinking.
MS: Right.
BM: That has to be tough. It narrows down the prospects considerably, doesn’t it?
MS: Yeah. Yeah, especially where we are, in Athens, Georgia, which is pretty much the opposite of a metal hotbed, you know?
BM: Isn’t that sort of REM territory down there?
MS: Yeah. Yeah, it’s college rock and all that crap. And I mean, it’s getting better. As I was working, doing some studio stuff over the last year, I kind of found out that some of the younger kids, it does seem to be getting back to musicianship and actual playing. There are a lot of young metal bands around here too, but it’s all the stringy, kind of more modern stuff. But at least it seems like kids are starting to learn to play their instruments again, at least that’s a step in the right direction.
BM: [laughs] Speaking of which, who are your guitar heroes? Or vocal heroes? Who do you really look up to as being the best, or at least your favorites?
MS: Well, guitar-wise, James Hetfield and Dave Mustaine were two of the real early ones for me. ‘Cause I’m more of a rhythm player, and being more of a guitar player and a singer, they were kind of up near the top of the list as far as models, in terms of just being able to pull that off. Players that I love, style-wise, great players, John Petrucci, Michael Romeo, all pretty much the usual suspects. It’s so different from what I do, what I’m able to do, that it just amazes me. Vocals again, pretty much the usual. Geoff Tate was huge, my whole high school musical life was devoted to Queensryche. Bruce Dickenson’s another huge one. Really no surprises, I guess. The answers you always get, probably.
BM: Well no, you know what is a surprise, though, I don’t get those answers from a Christian musician, because a lot of the Christians I know would either be not allowed to listen to Metallica, Megadeth, Queensryche, or they would somehow be strangely influenced by it and pulled in a different direction.
MS: Right, right.
BM: How did you maintain your focus while listening to those kinds of bands?
MS: Well it depends. There’s a lot of stuff that I wouldn’t listen to if I felt like the message or whatever was kind of in direct opposition to where I stood. It didn’t interest me. But most of the bands I listen to, I thought there wasn’t anything that bothered me to the point of distracting from enjoying the music. And if there were certain songs that I didn’t want to listen to, I wouldn’t.
BM: [laughs] Well that’s a responsible way to look at it, sure. You know, your web site has some really cool stuff on it. I like a lot of the things, I think you probably wrote them, in fact, ‘cause a lot of the words on your site apparently came from you. One of the things you wrote is, “when you’re dealing with the most powerful and serious subject matter in existence, you can’t back it up with weak music. It just doesn’t work in my opinion.”
MS: Right.
BM: It’s a great quote. How does this manifest itself in how you approach song writing or going into the studio, as opposed to any other bands writing songs or going into the studio? How did this approach to the subject matter change how you created your music?
MS: Nothing consciously. It’s just so natural for me, I just write what I feel like, and that type of music comes naturally. To me, it fits. There’s never a case of me having to get myself into a certain mindset or psyched up a certain way to live up to the lyrical approach. Obviously the lyrics and music will influence each other for me, when I’m writing, I tend to write best when I have at least a rough outline of where I want to go lyrically, or what the song will kind of be about. It works all different ways. Sometimes there’s no idea, and it’s just come up with a musical piece and add to it later. But there’s no, I never remember me making a conscious effort to make anything sound more epic or powerful. It’s just the kind of music I love, so it just comes out naturally, I guess.
BM: Cool. That’s a great way to put that. Tell me, what’s going to be harder for you; doing the first album, or your second one? What will be the hardest thing for you as a musician to do? Is it the pressure of following the successful first one that’s the hard thing to do?
MS: It’s definitely the second one that has proven to be a lot harder, but not for the reasons you might expect. It ended up for me being more difficult having to work around other people’s schedules, try to work around other people’s jobs and get everybody where they need to be and motivated and make that all work, than anything. Several times over the course of this thing, I found myself longing for the good old easy days of doing everything myself. Which is pretty funny. You don’t know, I mean, no reflection on the other guys in a bad way, it’s just a different challenge to have to, like Shawn [Benson], our drummer has really, really weird work schedules, and he never knows where he’s gonna be half the time, within the two or three different states that he travels around for his job, things like that. So it just makes it tough. As far as pressure to follow-up the first one, I haven’t really felt that, because I feel like this new one just seems like it’s going to be so strong, to us, that there’s no, I haven’t really worried about the follow-up. It’s different knowing that there are people out there now who are waiting for it, but like I said, the first one was basically glorified demos that kind of turned into an album. Starting this one and knowing it’s going to be an actual release album has been a little bit different. The hardest thing has mostly been schedules.
BM: Well, are you still on track? I know on your forum, you’ve said that your goal is to have it out in plenty of time for ProgPower. Are you still kind of on track for that, or is it?
MS: I hope so, that’s definitely the goal. It’s just kind of the thing that concerns me is having so much of it out of my hands. Because I can get done with my part, but when it comes to labels and artwork and things like that, it’s hard to have control.
BM: Will it be out on MetalAges again, or a different label?
MS: Probably a different label. I don’t think, I think Deron kind of dissolved MetalAges. He’s still distributing our first album and stuff, but I don’t think he’s doing anything new. So we’ve got to shop around and hope somebody wants to sign us. Or if we can’t get a good enough deal, we’ll just put it out ourselves. I do feel like I’m still on track, making good progress, and the good thing is I’ve gotten beyond that point of having to worry about other people’s schedules, because everybody else’s stuff is done now. That’s good, I can just kind of buckle down and work around the clock. We’ll just have to hope that the things that are beyond our control kind of work themselves out quickly.
BM: [laughs] Do you guys have a working title for it or anything?
MS: Yeah, it’s got a title. This won’t print until ProgPower, right?
BM: No, these interviews will be printing all summer along. I’ll be posting interviews with all these bands throughout the summer.
MS: Oh, ok.
BM: So if you don’t want to reveal it, you don’t have to.
MS: Ok, yeah, is that cool if I hold out on that then?
BM: Yeah.
MS: Ok, in case it changes or something. [laughs] ‘Cause you never know.
BM: [laughs] That’s no problem. This interview that I’m doing with you right now I’ll probably transcribe and post in July.
MS: Ok, cool.
BM: One of the things that surprises me also on your web site is where you wrote if you had to name one person as the all time most prominent influence, it would be Steve Harris from Iron Maiden.
MS: Musically, yeah.
BM: Musically. What is that, what is it about Steve Harris that would make you write something so boldly like that, like he’s the main man? Why Steve Harris?
MS: Just his sense of melody and the kind of epic ways he put things together. I don’t know. That’s about it, really, just the whole kind of melodic and aggressive and energetic kind of approach just really rubbed off on me. I mean, there are several others I could name.
BM: Well, that’s a good one. I agree with you on that. [laughs]
MS: [laughs] Obviously, I would never try to compare myself, or my work to his. In terms of that kind of melodic, epic feel.
BM: Oh yeah, they’re one of the most melodic, epic bands I can think of.
MS: Yep, yep.
BM: Do you…How do you see…well, that’s the wrong way to put that. Is Theocracy getting noticed and placed in Christian music stores and book stores, or are you primarily in so-called secular stores?
MS: Honestly, as far as I know, it’s next to nothing in terms of actual stores, at least that I know of. It’s all been on the web. There might be some stores here and there. But that’s one of the main big, big things that we want to improve on next time, and that’s why we’re hoping that a decent sized label will be interested in putting out the new one. Distribution’s obviously one of the most important things. So I really don’t know. The people that I hear about buy it online. It may be in some stores here and there. Who knows?
BM: Well, that’s interesting. There are an awful lot of Christian music chains out there that might be quite interested in something like this.
MS: Right. Hopefully next time.
BM: Whose decision is that to pursue? Is that a time factor? Whoever your label would be, would that be their job?
MS: As far as, you mean stores and stuff?
BM: Yeah, trying to put you elsewhere, like aggressively promoting you.
MS: Yeah, that would be the label’s job.
BM: Ok. So there’s a lot riding on this label decision.
MS: Yeah. Definitely. That’s a big tradeoff. A label’s basically a bank. They give you an advance ahead of time and take it back later. So it’s all about what they can do for you. We would definitely make a lot more money if we put the thing out ourselves. But it wouldn’t get to as many places. So it’s a big tradeoff. I’ll just hope it works out.
BM: It says your day job, you’re a graphic designer?
MS: I was. I’m actually not doing that anymore. Well, I kind of am, I’m doing like technical writing right now.
BM: Technical writing as in what, copywriting?
MS: Helping write manuals, that kind of thing.
BM: So you’re a copywriter. Do you work at like a corporation or an agency?
MS: Yeah, a corporation. It’s actually a company that makes airline parts, as the moment. Yeah, it’s terribly boring, but got to have something to pay the bills.
BM: [laughs] Yeah, I can understand that. So you’re writing technical manuals, a copywriter. That’s cool.
MS: Yeah, I’m hoping that, like any musician, I’d love to be able to live off it. And I’m hoping that the next album we’ll get closer. Hopefully, at least between that and doing studio stuff, I can at least work with music and not have to endure terribly boring day jobs.
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
MS: Not that I mind, it’s just ideally, I’d love for it to work out otherwise. We’ll see.
BM: Tell me about the booklet, the CD booklet itself here. Scriptures from Romans all over the last page there. That’s pretty much then entire Bible story summed up in about a dozen verses. Are those your favorite verses, or did you put them there as an indicator of how this whole Christian thing works? What was the point of putting them in the booklet?
MS: Yeah. Just kind of an indicator. Like you said, that just sums it up nicely for anybody who might kind of be interested in reading more but doesn’t know where to start, or doesn’t wanna spend hours and hours digging through stuff. That’s kind of a nice synopsis.
BM: The Reader’s Digest version.
MS: Yeah, more or less.
BM: Well let’s say you get that person. What do you recommend that person do? Let’s say somebody in Iowa stumbles on Theocracy, thinks it’s great, what’s the next step for that person?
MS: You mean as far as scripture?
BM: Yeah, well anything. Let’s say they get really hooked on this whole lyrical thing, they’re digging the scriptures, they contact you and say, “Matt, now what?”
MS: It just would depend on where they are, and their state, what they’re looking for. It just depends. It’s hard to give kind of a straight-up answer for that, because it’s dependent. To me, finding a good church is important, but that can be difficult too. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MS: In a case like that, I would take it more on a case-by-case basis and see what exactly the have to say.
BM: Has that kind of thing come up yet, where somebody’s gotten really turned on with the message?
MS: Yeah. It’s been more, they haven’t really come to me with questions so much, but I’ve heard a lot about just a ton of things about, “this meant so much to me and helped me come back to my faith or reconsider this or that.” There was a story about “Twist of Fate,” supposedly someone was about to commit suicide and they decided not to because of that song. Just all kinds of amazing stories. It blows me away every time. I just can’t believe it. They haven’t come to me in terms of, “what now?” or “what do I need to do?” but it’s just more things that I hear. It’s more thanks and that kind of thing. It just means so much, like I said, I’m just totally blown away that people would find our music that moving and powerful.
BM: Well, metaphysically speaking here, if you approach this in the way you have, and to you this is bigger than everyday, run-of-the-mill lyrics, wouldn’t you assume then, that you are put here at this time for a purpose anyway, maybe it’s to find those particular people, or vice versa, they find you. Do you ever put that into perspective and think of it that way?
MS: Yeah, I think about it. It’s just, even so, it’s hard for me to get over, because I just feel so small and it’s just hard to believe. It’s not that I don’t believe that’s the case, I guess I take it for granted. It’s a pretty amazing thing. I hope that, I feel like i have a responsibility to help people when I can, and it’s obviously an avenue that’s been opened to me through the music thing. It’s just not in my nature to expect it, I’m still just so blown away by the whole thing. Any musician will tell you that, that puts out a positive message, it doesn’t have to be — a lot of musicians get that, even if it’s not related to Christianity. You know, “so-and-so’s song helped me so much, helped me realize that I wasn’t the only one going through this.” You hear stories all the time. I would think for any musician, but just for me, it humbles me. It’s just the most humbling thing you can imagine.
BM: That’s really cool. How do you see yourself, then, or let me ask it this way, how would you rather be known, as a fantastic Christian or a fantastic musician? How do you want people to view you?
MS: I don’t think they have to be exclusive. Both, if I can cheat, I’d say both. I mean, that’s kind of my goal. I don’t worry so much about what other people think. In terms of the way they appreciate my music, sure, but it doesn’t bother me if Joe Blow down the street doesn’t like what I do. I just make the best music I can, and the music that I love, and hope that it continues to touch people.
BM: What is your favorite song off Theocracy? In fact, tell me about the songs on Theocracy, your debut album. What comes to mind when you think of each song? What is the idea behind it? What started it in your mind? How did it become a song? Let’s say, “Prelude.”
MS: “Prelude”?
BM: That’s beautiful, that’s a great piece of music.
MS: Thank you. Yeah. “Prelude” is actually funny, because my best friends owned a pet store here in town and I was doing a radio commercial for them. And we had all these different, I was kind of joking around doing all these different versions, like a country western sounding thing. And so I threw a, I was like I’m gonna do an over-the-top epic sounding thing, just as a joke. Which was actually “Prelude,” basically. So I threw that down just as a test under a commercial as a joke. Of course, they didn’t end up using it, but I was like, that’s pretty cool, I think I’ll hang onto it. And I ended up starting the album with it. You never know how those things are gonna work.
BM: How about “Ichthus”? Where did that song come from?
MS: It’s hard for me to remember some of these, because it’s been a while now. “Ichthus,” I think I came up with that main melody, that guitar melody and chorus melody first. And that thingamacalit, Jesus fish you see on cars and stuff like that, it probably doesn’t have any meaning now, ‘cause everybody’s got one. But at some point, I read the origins of it and I just thought it was really interesting. Usually when that happens, I’m always thinking in terms of songs, and I knew it would make a cool song.
BM: Oh cool. How about “Serpent’s Kiss”?
MS: There’s so many parts to that one. That one’s been going on for so long. I had I think the first thing I came up with for that one was that fast riff at the end, going into that last section, that kind of Iron Maiden kind of sounding riff. That was the first thing I think I wrote for it, musically. Like any epic for me is normally, I wish I was a faster writer sometimes, just ‘cause I’m not, especially stuff like that will just develop over time. So it’s hard to really pinpoint any particular seed of thought behind that, it’s just different musical themes and lyrics and riffs that accumulated over time and ended up being very long.
BM: Yeah, it’s almost a 12-minute song. Do you find…let me diverge from my track to track thing here a second and ask you do you find it harder to write an epic track, or a real condensed 3-4 minute track?
MS: It depends. There’s really not that much of a difference. And now that I’m thinking about it more, going back to” Ichthus,” that was one of the more difficult ones to write. I don’t remember why, but something about just putting it together. Arrangement is one of the hardest things. A lot of times I’ll have songs 3/4 of the way done, but I just can’t quite figure out how to piece them together. In certain parts, how to make this flow, ‘cause that’s so important to me. A lot of the bands you’ll hear, their songs will kind of, a lot of the stops will be so abrupt, and the sections won’t really flow, and it just seems kind of cut and pasted together. I don’t dig that. So getting it to where it seems like a nice seamless piece of music can sometimes be more hard than you would expect.
BM: No, I’d expect it to be real hard now. [laughs]
MS: [laughs] But to me, that’s probably the biggest challenge for one of those epic songs. It’s not so much coming up with the stuff, coming up with all the sections, it’s, “all right, how do I make this work? How do I make this from this section in B to this section in G?” But that’s part of the fun, that can also be frustrating sometimes.
BM: [laughs] Tell me about “Mountain.”
MS: “Mountain” started with the chorus melody/organ intro. That was kind of a metaphor for kind of spiritual highs or, I don’t want to say like feeling on top of the world, or something cheesy like that, but you know, that kind of thing. And some symbolism was, around the same time I was writing that, my girlfriend, who’s now my wife, was actually hiking up a mountain in Africa, Mt. Kilimanjaro.
BM: Oh really?
MS: Yeah, she was hiking. So that’s I guess the symbolism, she was talking to me about that, so some of the images and stuff were pretty strong, and so that one came out naturally.
BM: That’s cool. What about “Theocracy,” which seems to be one of the favorite songs of some fans on your forum? Where did that come from?
MS: That was actually the last, like far and away the last song written. And recorded. The album was pretty much done, and then I decided to add one more, and it worked out well because it was the title track and everything. [laughs] And it made it easy for me to self-title the first album, and this and that. Trying to remember now, I came up with, the only thing I really remember about that one is once I decided I was gonna do it, it became kind of a crunch time thing, because it was the only thing holding the album back. By this point it was, ‘cause everything was worked out with MetalAges and whatnot, and I decided to add it, and I definitely wanted to do it. That was one of the few times that I was having to kind of force myself to write, I mean, not force myself in a bad way, like against my will, but providing a deadline, because normally I kind of let it take it’s shape naturally. But I remember I went to a park here in town, and I had a notebook with lyrics and a little Dictaphone tape recorder. And I already had kind of the basic shell of the song, but I remember that was, that afternoon at the park was when I really worked a lot of that one out, singing different riffs and melodies and piecing it out on the Dictaphone. And hopefully nobody was around there listening, ‘cause I probably would have sounded like a crazy guy.
BM: [laughs]
MS: Yeah, that’s my memory about that one. That was kind of a, it was a good feeling, because I had to get it done, and I just went and knocked it out, and that doesn’t come easy for me. Some musicians, I think, seems to be a lot of the more trained ones, they can go, “all right, we’re gonna write music tonight from 3 to 6” and they schedule it out like that. I can’t really do that. So that was one of the few times I had to try to do it, and it actually worked.
BM: That’s great. I was talking with Mike from Circus Maximus, I was talking to him Saturday. And he actually, no, Sunday, it was. And he actually wrote a song Friday for our interview.
MS: [laughs]
BM: He did. He came up with this two minute song called “Back to Atlanta” and he played it for me and he sent me the mp3. [laughs] And it’s really good.
MS: [laughs] That’s hilarious.
BM: He’s got a great voice.
MS: Oh man. That’s hilarious. Yeah, that guy can sing like crazy.
BM: [laughs] Tell me about the “The Healing Hand.” And by the way, one of these songs is my absolute favorite on the album. I’ll tell you what it is in a minute, but tell me about “The Healing Hand.”
MS: “The Healing Hand” was very, very old. ‘Cause like I said, I worked so long just writing songs and had other band members, and that one just went back years and years before the album. So that was, “The Healing Hand” and “Sinner” were both really old songs. They got kind of dusted off and reworked a little bit. That was my first kind of epic attempt at song writing.
BM: Yeah, that’s almost a 12-minute track too.
MS: Yep.
BM: You know, one thing I notice about your lyrics, and if you’re writing technical manuals, and you are a copywriter, you obviously can write. But these lyrics are extremely intelligent and they’re just well-crafted. You seem to put a lot of time into your lyrics. Is that the case, or do they just flow from your pen, like ink on a page?
MS: It takes time. It depends. I did get a journalism degree, so writing’s always come pretty easy to me. I remember even elementary school, we’d have write poetry exercises and it just came really easy to me for some reason. It’s about the same as the music thing. It’s not something I really struggle with, but you get to points where you get stumped. That’s how it usually is for me. Most of it’ll come out easy, but I’ll still need two lines for the second verse, and I’ll go six months without being able to come up with those two lines. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MS: It’s definitely very, very important to me, and I try to take a lot of time on it. I think people appreciate that. Like we were saying, even people who don’t necessarily identify with the lyrics or the message or whatever you want to call it, at least a lot of them seem to think that it’s well-written and well put-together. And that’s important, especially in power metal. So much of it’s slay the dragon and whatever, that I think people like a little more depth.
BM: Oh yeah. Tell me about “New Jerusalem,” where did that come from?
MS: Let’s see, that one, I remember I wrote, for some reason I tend to write songs in groups, usually like three at a time. Not start to finish, but off and on, I’ll have two or three going on at once. I remember I wrote that and “The Victory Dance” right around the same time. I don’t really remember specifics as far as an initial spark or anything. I just remember working the music out at my girlfriend’s old apartment, upstairs, just with a guitar and an amp plugged in. That’s where I remember writing most of that one.
BM: “The Victory Dance” is very cool. I’m listening to it now, in fact. I love that Celtic sort of, that real sort of beginning. What prompted you to create that kind of sound for the beginning of the song?
MS: I like that kind of thing. Tobias Sammet from Edguy, we have the same web master, so we’re kind of all friends, and he was always one of my favorite songwriters. I’ve always really looked up to him, and he used that kind of sound a bit, so I was probably just influenced by that. I had the riff and I thought it would work well in that kind of feel. I had a couple sounds on my keyboard that were kind of that Celtic kind of deal, and tried it out, and it came out pretty cool.
BM: Oh yeah, it did. “Twist of Fate.” That’s actually my favorite song on the entire album. Tell me about “Twist of Fate,” where did that come from?
MS: That’s probably my favorite song too. [laughs] That’s another one that was older. It wasn’t as old as “The Healing Hand” or “Sinner,” but it had been around for I guess a couple of years before I did the album. That one, it’s basically about the idea of fate and everything bad’s happening, and this is the way my life was designed to be. And I can’t, kind of the idea you feel you can’t rise above it, and it’s about the idea that there’s really no destiny or fate that you’re a slave to, basically. And a lot of the lyrics and the symbolism was, without going into a lot of specifics, there was a friend of mine who had gone through a bunch of stuff, and she kind of told me about it, and that was the inspiration for a lot of the kind of more specific lyrical references. I remember that one was, that was one of the very few times that the lyrics came before the music. ‘Cause usually I write the music first, or at least try to write them together. But that one, I remember I was sitting in class, and I was just so inspired and I just started writing, and pretty much got the whole thing out real quick. That was one of the fastest songs I remember writing, it just really, really flowed.
BM: Well I haven’t heard music quite this stirring in a long time. That third section, Ascend Unto the Mountain, is just amazing. It gives me chills, it’s really well done.
MS: Thank you. I appreciate that. Like I said, I really love that song too. And it’s a really fun one to play live. It goes over well, because it has those good, heavy, mid-tempo head banging riffs that tend to work really well in concert. It’s a fun one to play.
BM: That’s what I was gonna ask you next. I’ve got one more thing to ask and I’ll let you get back to your life here.
MS: [laughs]
BM: I’ve taken up enough of your time.
MS: No, it’s fine.
BM: But what is your favorite song to play live from your album? Is it this one, or do you have another one? What do you like to play the best?
MS: It really just depends on the night. “Twist of Fate” is always a good one. Just something about the stop-start, you know? All the kind of kick ins, the light and shade, going from a quiet thing and kicking into a harder riff, that kind of thing works really well. It depends. I like playing the fast stuff too, in some nights those things will be the best, and some nights it’ll feel like, “whoa, where we at here?” We still haven’t played much, we’ve played some local shows. And one of the shows we played a few months back, here in town, we didn’t realize how fast we played everything. We go back and listen, and that’s just stuff you learn with experience.
BM: You played your 60 minute album in 12 minutes, did ya?
MS: Yeah, yeah. It’s like, “why do we still have so much time left in the set?” But going back and watching the tape or whatever, some of those fast songs were even way faster. So it depends, it’s just a night to night thing really. I enjoy playing all of them.
BM: Do you read a lot of fiction, or do you watch movies? What becomes your sources of inspiration for some of your musical creativity?
MS: I’ll find myself thinking about this or that for whatever reason. It could be something that, like in the case of “Twist of Fate,” something that happens to a friend of mine, or something going on in my life. It’s usually something related to real life that starts me thinking about a certain concept or whatever. And that will usually turn into a song. I’m actually not that big of a reader. I do love movies and watch a lot of movies, but it doesn’t really, I’m not one of these guys that watches a movie and then writes a song about it. Not yet, I’m not saying that won’t happen, but for me it seems more kind of just stuff that gets in my mind for one reason or another. And it’s usually related to something going on in my life or a friend’s life.
BM: This could be my last question for you. What can audiences expect from Theocracy at ProgPower this fall?
MS: Well, a short set. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Played really fast.
MS: Unfortunately. Yeah. No, from time constraints this time, not from speed. It just depends on if the new album is out by then, which I really, really hope, because I really really want to play a good selection from both albums. If everything goes according to plan, that’s what’ll happen, a real cross-section of both albums. There are certain songs that we have to play, “Mountain” and “The Serpent’s Kiss” and things like that people seem to love.
BM: What about “Twist of Fate.” You gonna slip that one in?
MS: I hope so. I hope so. We’ll see. That’s the problem with having so many long songs, you’d hate to have two albums out and be playing medleys, you know? [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MS: We’re gonna definitely do a lot of work between now and then to work out what we consider a perfect set list, something that will make everybody happy and that’ll flow well. It’s gonna be a lot of fun, I can’t wait.
BM: I can’t wait either. I’m looking forward to seeing your set, I’m looking forward to meeting you down there, and I really appreciate your time today. I love the album, I can’t wait for the next one. Like all the other people waiting, I can’t wait either.
MS: Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate that. We’ll keep you posted.
BM: Definitely, that’s something I’d like you to do, if you can, is shoot me updates now and then. I’m gonna put them on that notes site. And if you have any pictures or anything, any behind-the-scenes stuff, jpg, just email them to me.
MS: Ok. I’ll do it. And hopefully we’ll have everything out in time and everything will work out fine.
BM: Yeah.
MS: But I really appreciate you wanting to talk to me and taking your time out to do it as well.
BM: I appreciate your music, I really do. Thank you so much for your time tonight.
MS: Thank you. Take care.
BM: Take care. Bye-bye.
You can learn more about Theocracy by visiting their official web site at www.theocracymusic.com. You can purchase Theocracy at www.lasercd.com.
