Mark Jansen: “I was happy as a little child”
I first spoke with Mark Jansen when he was in the Dutch “Beauty and Beast” band After Forever, some four years ago shortly after the release of After Forever’s Decipher (one of my favorite albums of all time). At the time, I was teaching a class in Advertising at a nearby university and I contacted Mark (and vocalist Floor Jansen) as a class project. I wanted my class to see if it was possible to “market” After Forever in the States and, shooting for the moon, see what it would take to bring them over here to play a gig in West Michigan.
So I ordered a dozen copies of Decipher from LaserCD.com and passed them out to anyone in the class who wanted to be part of the After Forever Group.
The class was psyched. We were all set to hook up the group’s leaders with Mark to do an interview when — out of the blue — he and After Forever parted ways. It shocked everyone (not least of all Mark) and ended our project.
Mark and I kept in touch occasionally. But once he got Epica up and running, his days of chatting with a college professor were pretty much over.
I always wanted to see Mark play live, though, and was totally thrilled when Epica was announced as one of the bands playing in this year’s ProgPowerUSA lineup.
Here’s how my interview with Mark went…
MJ: Hi, this is Mark.
BM: Hi, Mark. How are you? This is Bill.
MJ: Hey Bill. [laughs]
BM: How you doin’? Are you home now?
MJ: Yes, yes, yes, I’m home. [laughs]
BM: Good, good.
MJ: How are you doing?
BM: Oh, good, doing great.
MJ: Perfect.
BM: Well, it’s been a long time. I haven’t talked to you since February of 2002.
MJ: Yes, yes, that’s a long time. That was still the After Forever period, right?
BM: Yep. That’s it. [laughs]
MJ: Yeah. [laughs]
BM: Well, you know what, you guys [in Epica] are amazing because you’ve been touring all over the world. I mean, you’ve been in Israel, France, United Kingdom, Belgium, Switzerland, Mexico, Tunisia–how has the response been to Epica all over the world?
MJ: Yes, it’s amazing. Yeah, but with metal music, I think the big advantage is that it’s not–it’s kind of underground, so everywhere, all over the world there are metal fans, and because there are not that many metal bands that travel all over the world, you get everywhere a kind of big crowd. And that’s the big advantage when you play, for example rock music, there are many rock bands, so it’s very difficult to get the audience abroad. But for us, it’s perfect.
BM: Oh yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Well, how have the audiences been different in all these countries? Are they different, or how are they different?
MJ: Yeah, yeah, they are different in every country. It’s really weird. When you play for example in Brazil, the audience is very wild, screaming, yelling, jumping. And when you play the next day in Argentina, the crowd is calm, kind of, not cold, but reserved.
BM: Really?
MJ: Yeah, that’s exactly how–like the crowd in the Netherlands. So maybe it’s a little colder in Argentina in comparison to Brazil, so maybe that’s the reason. [laughs] But we played, [laughs], it’s really weird. We played in Brazil, there the crowd was really nuts, and we played in Argentina and the crowd was quiet, but they gave us a good hand and the atmosphere was really good. But the crowd was totally different. And the other week we played in Sao Paulo, and it of course was again really hot and like in Brazil.
BM: Really? Wow.
MJ: Yeah. But I think it also depends on the weather of a country. When the weather is really hot, the people are hot as well, in a way.
BM: Really. [laughs]
MJ: [laughs] Yeah. And also, we played in Israel, the crowd was like in Brazil, also we had a really good crowd in Israel, and they were very energetic as well.
BM: Is there a pretty good metal audience in Israel?
MJ: Yeah, yeah, we were very surprised, because the metal is very small in Israel. It’s really underground, so we expected maybe 200 or 300 people, but the whole venue was sold out.
BM: Wow.
MJ: So everybody was surprised.
BM: Wow, that’s amazing.
MJ: Yeah, yeah, we were watching when the other band was playing, and we were really amazed. With the whole venue full of people screaming, “Epica, Epica.” [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Well, you’ve been pretty experienced now, touring all over the world. Do you have a favorite road story that you’d like to share? Anything that was really funny or really strange or…? What’s your favorite road story?
MJ: Yeah, with every tour there’s always something that happens that sticks in your mind. For example, when we did our South American tour, people when we were driving in the bus and they noticed it was Epica coming, they were running behind the car or grasping the car and they didn’t let go. So when the car was driving, they were hanging at the car.
BM: Really? [laughs]
MJ: Yes. [laughs] It was dangerous in a way, and we said, “Please, release yourself.” [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MJ: So it’s really dangerous, but they didn’t let go, so they were screaming, also throwing packages into the window with photographs, photos and presents. Yeah, I will never forget that.
BM: Wow, it’s almost like you guys are the Beatles all of a sudden.
MJ: Yeah, we also said to each other that this must be how Robbie Williams feels all over the world. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
MJ: But we didn’t know how–yeah, we didn’t know that experience. We–it never happened to us before, so it was really, really weird experience. [laughs]
BM: Wow. That’s great. That is really cool.
MJ: Yeah, yeah. But I’m happy in a way that it doesn’t happen everywhere. Because when it happens everywhere, then–I can imagine now how a guy like Robbie Williams feels, never is he alone, never he can be the guy who he is. Every time he has to be, yeah, you know, careful because people are watching him every day.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah, it seems difficult to me.
BM: [laughs]
MJ: No privacy, no privacy.
BM: No, not at all. Well, you’d mentioned After Forever. When I talked to you last, it was, you were in the band, and everything was going great. Then all of a sudden you weren’t in the band. What happened with that?
MJ: Well, there was a kind of, a struggle between Sander [Gommans, guitarist] and me, the person that founded the band. And we both had different opinion about how to develop the music.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: And that was one part of the story. And the other side was also personally we couldn’t get along anymore. We had a problem, and so one of us had to leave. And unfortunately it was me.
BM: Well, you know things work out though. Look where you are now.
MJ: Yeah, so now After Forever is doing well, Epica is doing well, at the end it’s a good solution. But right after the departure, I can tell you I felt pretty miserable.
BM: Oh yeah, yeah, I can imagine. That must have been–
MJ: Yeah, I worked seven years for achieve, what we achieved in 2002, big tour with Nightwish. And then right before the tour, I had to leave. So that was not that–
BM: It was devastating to you, wasn’t it?
MJ: Yeah, really, really, really. I was really down for a couple of months. But then I said to myself, “continue”, and there was too many more music still to write. So I decided to go on, form a new band, and I took of course a lot of steps backward, but, yeah, because of that experience, it was more easy to do it, and to avoid mistakes. ‘Cause in the beginning of After Forever, you trip in a lot of traps, is that how you say that?
BM: Yeah.
MJ: And every time, everything is new, and now nothing is new anymore, and we could develop quite quickly, quite fast. So that was a big advantage.
BM: Well yeah, ’cause you went from, let’s say 2002 in After Forever, and then you guys put out an album as Epica in 2003, so things did come together really quickly.
MJ: Yeah. We had the luck that the record company, Transmission Records was behind us, and they said, “When you record a demo first, and it sounds good, you can be sure we will sign you. We will sign the new band.” And then, that’s what we did. We recorded a demo CD for Transmission and they said, “Yeah, let’s do it.” And so we didn’t have to search for a record company, which, normally takes a lot of time. So it was very easy to keep them going, and release the CD quite fast.
BM: Oh, that’s great.
MJ: But still, I think there’s a sense of agony because of all this shit, what happened, I had a lot of inspiration for music, so–
BM: Oh yeah.
MJ: –that was the advantage of the disadvantage. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Well, I remember talking to you–what is it now–four years ago. You were considering going after your Ph.D.. Are you still thinking about that?
MJ: About what?
BM: Continuing your education to get a Ph.D., a doctorate.
MJ: Oh! Yes, yes. I finished the studies.
BM: Really?
MJ: Yes, so I’m now, I have a degree in–
BM: You’re Dr. Jansen?
MJ: Yeah, I have now a degree in psychology. [laughs]
BM: Dr. Jansen. Wow.
MJ: Yeah. [laughs]
BM: That’s great.
MJ: Thank you very much.
BM: Yeah, that’s great. Do you plan to use that at some time? Let’s say if Epica ever ends, are you going to teach at the university or something? Or what will you do?
MJ: Oh, I really don’t know yet, but I’m sure it is insurance to have a degree, because only, Bill, if–it’s something that people take me serious.
BM: Oh yeah.
MJ: So that’s already a big advantage. When you do, and if you for example are in a foreign country, and they don’t know a lot about you, but one day find out you have a degree, in one way, they take you more serious. I don’t know why, but…
BM: Well, you know what, I was gonna say there’s a lot of band members in Epica that have advanced degrees. There’s quite a few Master’s degrees, one of the guys teaches mathematics.
MJ: Yeah, yeah.
BM: Do you–what does that advanced education–how does that manifest itself in your music? Does having those advanced degrees and education help in some ways with the music, or are they just totally separate from it?
MJ: Yeah, I think most things are separate, but we are all working very hard to achieve something, and that is in a way the comparison, because we want to finish something we start with, and that’s for the study, and also for Epica. So when we started with Epica, we all wanted to achieve something, and travel around the world. And that’s exactly what we are doing nowadays, so I think that’s the main comparison.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: But yeah. And also, I use some psychology in my lyrics, but not really in the music. That’s really different.
BM: When you were starting to work on Epica, how long did it take you to find Simone [Simons, vocalist]? ‘Cause she’s a great singer.
MJ: Yeah. That’s a funny story, because she was right in front of my nose, but she was very young when I met her and she was a singer. And I knew her talent, but her techniques were quite poor in the beginning, so we decided it was best for her to take singing lessons and develop herself. And we were looking for a singer, so we were looking and looking and doing a lot of auditions, but none of them were really fitting to the band. And after three quarter of a year of searching, Simone became better and better in the meantime. So that’s why, when we said, “Well, let’s take Simone, she’s in front of our nose.”
BM: [laughs]
MJ: [laughs] Yeah. She has all the things we are looking for.
BM: Wow, that is great.
MJ: But still, she was quite inexperienced. But we took the risk, and yeah, sometimes it’s very good to take risks.
BM: Oh yeah. When you were–
MJ: It can work out great, and it can be a failure. But I believe that if you don’t risk anything, you don’t achieve anything.
BM: Oh yeah. When you were starting to put Epica together, did you intentionally want a band that sounded like After Forever, or sounded nothing like After Forever?
MJ: Yeah, it’s–the music I like, it’s more vocals, operatic stuff, a combination with film music and metal music. That’s also my thought that I put into After Forever. I wanted to continue that kind of music, so that’s what I used also in Epica. So you have some things that are in common with After Forever, but there are also some new elements, because we always take the band members and always have their influence in the music. But of course there are some similarities, and I think that’s no, not a problem.
BM: Oh no, not at all.
MJ: [laughs]
BM: One of the things you told me about After Forever’s music, you described it as symphonic fantasy metal, ’cause it sounded like sort of a musical score to a movie.
MJ: Yeah.
BM: And then, just a few years later, three years, you release The Score, which is exactly that. [laughs]
MJ: [laughs]
BM: How did that come about? Was that like a fulfillment of a dream to you? Tell me about The Score.
MJ: Yeah, that’s also a long story. I’ll try to tell it short. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MJ: Yeah, there was already a contact between me and a film company, which originated from 2001 when I was in the studio recording. They called me, and that was the first contact. And they had some vague plans about making a movie, and they wanted to have some kind of music like After Forever. And we stayed in contact, even when I was out of After Forever, and when they had the finances, they started with the movie. And they still want me to do the music, so that’s what happened. And when I finished the music there was also interest on Transmission Records to release it as an album. But the songs were not, there were not enough songs for one CD, so together with Yves [Huts, bassist], I wrote some more songs. And that’s why we recorded for The Score. Yeah, it was for me kind of a dream come true, because that was something I always wanted to do, but I would never think of that any record company would have been interested in doing something like this. But Transmission Records took the risk, because to record an album like The Score, it doesn’t cost a lot. It’s quite cheap in comparison to a normal CD, so they earn more money on The Score than on a normal CD. So in the end, they were very happy. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] A lot of Epica fans almost kind of misunderstood The Score, didn’t they? They were expecting some heavy metal and typical Epica sounds, and this took them by surprise.
MJ: Yeah.
BM: Did that–
MJ: Yeah. That’s why I told everytime in the interview, please listen before you buy, because it’s really different from what you expect from Epica. It’s only just film music type from Epica. So it’s really an album for people that like this kind of music. And there are a lot of Epica fans who really like this stuff, and a lot of fans who like the heavy side of Epica and they didn’t like The Score. So, but for me it’s no problem. It’s only for the people that like this kind of music. And there are even some people that don’t like Epica normally, but they like The Score kind of music, and they also, yeah, liked this album. So it’s a very weird type there, in a way. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] There’s a little bit of controversy lately, I see from reading your band forum, about MySpace, and some Epica sites that were taken down by Transmission. What was the reason for that, do you know?
MJ: Yeah, I’m not that into what Transmission did about MySpace, but there are some people who put a site with Epica music, or what happened exactly?
BM: Well, there was a couple of, like two or three fan sites devoted to Epica on MySpace, and one person even put up one, one gal said she wanted to have like an official Epica so she put it up there. And then everybody got upset, because I guess Transmission emailed MySpace and asked that they be taken down. So they were all, a bunch of fans on your forum that are upset about that.
MJ: Yeah. That’s always the fight between the band and Transmission. Of course, we only support this fans, this MySpace fans, because it’s very important for a band like Epica, especially in the metal scene. But, Transmission has a different view.
BM: [laughs]
MJ: [laughs] Which makes me kind of angry. But, yeah, it’s still their policy and they have the right to do it, so I would never try to stop them in their policy because we have not the right to do it and they do really good job for us.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah. So I sometimes disagree, but that’s what happened.
BM: Yeah. You guys are going to be touring this fall with Kamelot in the United States.
MJ: Yeah.
BM: Will that be your first time in the States?
MJ: It will be our first time in the States, and this is also a story, like I don’t really know what to expect. I really don’t know how many people in the United States know about Epica, or maybe not a lot, maybe more than I expect. But it’s a blank tape, and let’s see what’s going to happen? [laughs]
BM: I think you’re going to be surprised, Mark. I think you’re gonna find an awful lot of fans there for both bands. I think you’re gonna be surprised by the turnout.
MJ: Yeah, I really don’t know. What I expect is that in some venues, I will be really surprised indeed, and some venues can also be almost nobody present.
BM: Yeah. [laughs]
MJ: So I expect really big differences. [laughs]
BM: Well, you’re going to be in Michigan, my state at Harpos, in Detroit, after ProgPower. I’ll see you in ProgPower, and then my wife and I are both going to be at ProgPower and we’re going to see you at Harpos in Detroit for the Kamelot show.
MJ: Cool.
BM: So that’s gonna be nice.
MJ: Yeah, yeah, and I can only hope there are more people that go to two shows. [laughs]
BM: Oh, I’m pretty sure they will. If they don’t know it already, after I post this interview it’ll let people know for sure to go see you guys in Detroit as well.
MJ: Yeah, yeah. I will be very excited when there are a lot of people. [laughs] But we are always excited. If there are only 50 people and they are really energetic, we are happy as well. So it doesn’t matter how many people there are present, but the most important is how their reactions will be.
BM: Oh yeah.
MJ: And the United States, it’s so big, it’s like Europe. Also with Europe, you have in one, in some countries there are a lot of people that like metal, and in some countries the metal scene is very small. And I expect this to be in the United States as well.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: In the different states.
BM: Tell me about recording Epica albums. Which one has been the most difficult so far, the first one, or the most recent one?
MJ: The most hard to record?
BM: Yeah, the most difficult for you. Was it the first one, or was it Consign to Oblivion? Which would you say is the–
MJ: The first one happened in, yeah, everything went smoothly, everything was easy because it was so new for five of the six band members. I was the only one who recorded an album before, so it, yeah, it was like first album with After Forever, things happened so easy. And with the second album, you know what happens, you know the difficult part which are to come, so the second album, I think it’s always a little more difficult than the first one.
BM: Oh yeah. Do you have plans yet for another studio album anytime soon?
MJ: Yes, yes. Today I even worked with Simone on some new songs.
BM: Oh great.
MJ: And most of the songs are actually already finished, so there will be 13 songs on the new album.
BM: How many songs?
MJ: 13.
BM: 13, ok. I thought you said 30 for a second. I was gonna say, wow that’s a big one. [laughs]
MJ: Oh! [laughs] No, it’s 13, and there’s a reason for this, because 13 is the unlucky number, and of course it’s our lucky number.
BM: Is it really? Why is it a lucky number for you guys?
MJ: Well, because the only reason why it’s called an unlucky number is because there were 13 people at the table of Jesus, the last supper. And for us, that’s no reason to be an unlucky number.
BM: [laughs]
MJ: [laughs] I think 13 is a beautiful number, so that’s the reason why we have on purpose, 13 songs on the next album. [laughs]
BM: That’s great. Do you have a working title for that album yet?
MJ: Yeah, we have a title, but I unfortunately can’t tell that one yet. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] That’s fine. Tell me about, let me ask you something. I had a question I was going to ask you a little bit later on, but since you mentioned the new album, I noticed something about the lyrics on the two studio albums you have. On the first one, The Phantom Agony, you wrote seven songs, and Simone wrote two. But on Consign to Oblivion, you wrote five and she wrote six.
MJ: Yeah.
BM: It looks like her talents and abilities are amazing. She’s grown really fast.
MJ: Yeah, I always tell the band members, “It’s not that I want to write everything, it’s just I wait for good stuff.” So for example, when somebody writes eight good songs, then we use eight good songs of this person.
BM: Oh sure.
MJ: And that’s what happened on Consign to Oblivion, she wrote a lot of good lyrics, so we used them. And I don’t want to use my stuff because it’s my stuff. I only want to use the good stuff, and it doesn’t matter who wrote it. [laughs]
BM: That’s great. Does she write a lot of them on the new album?
MJ: Yes, yes. We even write most of the songs, the lyrics together.
BM: That’s great.
MJ: Next time, it will be really a mix between, in every song a mix between her lyrics and my lyrics.
BM: Wow.
MJ: And even Yves wrote some little parts of a lyric.
BM: That’s great. So it’s becoming quite a collaboration with you two.
MJ: Yeah, exactly. And we are all very often working together on the same night now, ’cause it’s the last part which has to be finished, and that’s also most of the time the most difficult part, because the singing line, that’s the part of the song that most people keep in their mind that make or break the song. So we are now, we still have a couple of months left for this finishing touch. And that’s the biggest advantage in comparison to Consign to Oblivion, where we didn’t have that much time anymore. So I hope that this time, we have, because of this time, we can make the almost perfect album. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Yeah. That would be great. A perfect album.
MJ: [laughs] That’s what we always try, but you always try to reach the perfection, but I think it’s almost impossible or impossible to reach really perfection.
BM: Oh yeah. Well, you’re playing ProgPower USA this fall, I think that’s your first appearance in the States. What are your thoughts on that?
MJ: I know about ProgPower already a lot of years, and it was always a wish for me to play in this festival. So when Glenn of ProgPower got in contact with me and showed his interest, I was as happy as a little child. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] That’s great.
MJ: Because also, when for example, when you play as a European band in the United States, in Europe the people say, “Oh, then you must be a good band.” Really weird. You can be the same band, but when you have not played in the United States, there is something missing.
BM: [laughs] So that kind of adds a little something to you, when you can now say, “Hey, we’ve played the States”, people will now take you even more seriously?
MJ: Absolutely. Yeah. That’s what happens in Europe when you play the States. And after you play, they take you more seriously.
BM: Oh, that’s great.
MJ: [laughs] That’s what happens. You can play everywhere, in Japan and Israel, everywhere in South America, when you play the States, it’s something different.
BM: Oh, that’s wonderful news. Well, what can audiences expect from you guys? What do you have planned for them at ProgPower?
MJ: We always give ourselves, we dedicated 100% to the show, so we always try to give the people the best we can give. And that’s something they can expect. And they can expect an energetic band that plays a lot of heavy songs.
BM: That’s good.
MJ: But we always, when we play live, we prefer the heavy songs above the quiet songs, because they have more power, more, yeah, more life for the people who attend the show.
BM: Yeah. Speaking of playing your songs. What is your favorite Epica song to play live?
MJ: That’s absolutely “Consign to Oblivion,” the song “Consigned to Oblivion.”
BM: Oh really?
MJ: Yeah, yeah.
BM: Why is that?
MJ: The song contains everything that Epica is about. It contains metal, it contains soul? music, it contains grunge, it contains chrisitna? vocals. Everything. And it’s something like ten minutes. Also, we had a poll on our home page, where we asked people, “What’s your favorite live song.” And if you see that topic, a lot of people say “Consign to Oblivion.”
BM: Wow. That’s good.
MJ: By far the most of them.
BM: Tell me about the grunts and screams thing. I remember mentioning it to you before when we were talking about After Forever. I was saying that maybe that’s the one thing that’s difficult for American audiences to get into, but it’s something that you guys feature as part of Epica. Do you ever consider not doing that, or is that always part of Epica’s sound?
MJ: Yeah, of course we consider it, but it’s a part which we can’t get rid of because we like it too much. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] That’s great.
MJ: [laughs] Because it’s a part where we can put all the aggressive elements in, ’cause there are always in the lyrics, there are the hope parts with sweet elements, the parts with the smooth things, and there are also in the lyrics the heavy, the sharp things. And yeah, that needs to be sung by grunts, ’cause that’s by far more, how you say, I don’t know how to say that in English, but let me think.
BM: Are you referring to the smooth parts or the grunt parts?
MJ: The grunt parts, yeah.
BM: Well–
MJ: You sing a lyric with a sweetness, then you have the very heavy part in a lyric, the angry part, and it doesn’t come over, or how do you say that?
BM: Well, what it makes is a counterpoint or a juxtaposition, it’s a balance.
MJ: Yeah, yeah. It’s a balance we seek for, and not only seek for, but it just exists in the lyric. So we, when we are placing the lyrics in the music, they are always hard, but we say to each other, “Yeah, this needs to be done by grunts, because the music and the lyric asks for it.”
BM: Yep.
MJ: So we never think about using the grunts, it just happens.
BM: [laughs] Tell me about “Consign to Oblivion.” Is that a concept album, or are they unrelated songs?
MJ: It’s not a concept album, but there are some songs that are related to the Mayan culture.
BM: Yep.
MJ: But I can tell already the next album will be fully concept album.
BM: Is it really?
MJ: Yes.
BM: What’s the concept, Mark? Are you gonna share that with me?
MJ: [laughs] Yeah, the main idea behind the concept is that in the end, the main character discovers that all religions existing on the earth are refer to the the same God. So that all the people that believe in different religions, at the end, mean the same. And all–he discovers if you take all the possible forms out of all religions, do you find the perfect religion.
BM: Wow.
MJ: Or the perfect balance to live.
BM: That sounds like a very philosophical, where did that theme come from, how did you come up with that?
MJ: Because, I think because of the travels I made. I’ve seen so many things happening in every country. I’ve seen also the fights that happen because of religion. And I always think, “Why is this happening?” And when I ask the people, “Why do you hate these people?” And they say, “I don’t know, in fact, I don’t hate them. There is just a difference in opinion and my father and grandfather and they told me about it. And nobody knows exactly why there is a problem.” It always has to do something with religion.
BM: Right.
MJ: And, but in fact, they always know people from the other side, and they are friends with them, some of them. In fact, there is no problem, but still there is. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MJ: So there’s always something going on with religion. While it’s possible to, yeah, in the end it’s possible to get rid of all these problems, but it’s very difficult.
BM: Are you optimistic then? That would be a very optimistic view of the future. Do you see yourself as an optimist and do you see sort of a bright future ahead, or what do you think’s gonna happen?
MJ: I don’t have that optimistic view on the future. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
MJ: To tell the truth, my opinion of the future is that the technology evolvement gets so fast that mankind always loses. Because the balance with nature really gets distorted more and more. So in a way, it must stop in the end. It’s not possible to go on like this. It’s also not possible to stop anymore, it’s going to fast that you can’t stop it anymore. It’s not possible. So I think there will be more disasters, like tornadoes, like water, like wind, will happen in the future. And I think we will get some heavy troubles to overcome.
BM: Oh yeah, those are even natural ones. How ’bout not natural ones, like what happened to 9/11? Do you see more of that kind of stuff happening?
MJ: I think this kind of stuff will happen as well, yeah.
BM: Yeah?
MJ: Yeah.
BM: Gee, this is kind of depressing, Mark. [laughs]
MJ: Yeah, it is, but it is just daily life.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah. That’s the way it is. And we also have this kind of–not that worse as 9/11 of course, but it happened in London, and also most of the rest of Europe here.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah, I think this kind of, how do you say, fundamentalistic wars will go on.
BM: Yeah, unfortunately, you’re probably right.
MJ: Yeah, unfortunately, I also say, really unfortunately, I really would like to see it different, but I’m not that optimistic. [laughs]
BM: [laughs] Well, it sounds like your next album is an optimistic one, though. Or is it idealistic? Would you like to see–
MJ: Yeah, idealistic. That’s for sure. But I always try to see the positive things and get the positive out of the negative. But it’s really hard, especially the part of technology, the design? It really happened so fast, and we used the sources of the earth. Where it is not possible, it goes really too fast. And there’s a lot of, yeah, I don’t know the English word, but we use a lot of resources and the sun, the heat of the earth gets greatest quickly, and the rate is that quickly that the poles are melting, and yeah, it goes so fast, that what will happen between 10 and 20 years, I think that we have a big disaster.
BM: [laughs] So we’ve got 10 to 20 years left, and that’s it?
MJ: Yeah, I think so.
BM: Yeah?
MJ: I really believe that we will get a big disaster, yeah. And then some things start to happen also in the United States, the thing with the big tornado the previous year.
BM: Oh yeah, the hurricane in New Orleans.
MJ: Yeah, exactly. The hurricane in New Orleans. I think this is only a small example about what’s gonna happen in about 10, 20 years. Also the sea wave that happened before, the big sea wave which cost a lot of people their lives? That’s also an example what will happen, I think, in a much bigger way.
BM: How are things in your own country? Are things pretty stable and pretty nice there, or are there any difficulties at home for you?
MJ: I also experience here more rain in more periods. Every summer there are some days there is so much rain that a lot of houses are full of water. And that happens more frequently. The summers are more rain, and the winters are less cold. So in the beginning everybody was saying, “Oh, that’s the way it happens always. It’s always going like this through the history.” But now they are convinced it is something to do with the heat of the earth.
BM: Yeah, the global warming.
MJ: Yeah, exactly. Now they take it seriously, finally.
BM: [laughs] Well, what has it been like working–you had Roy Khan, guest vocal on Consign to Oblivion. What was it like working with Roy?
MJ: Yeah, that was really great, because Roy’s voice, we like it already for a long time, and we never thought it would be possible to get him on an album, especially because he normally never does guest appearances, because he don’t like to do guest appearances and because he wants to be involved in the writing process from the beginning.
BM: Right.
MJ: So yeah, but we just gave it a try, because we really wanted to have him on the album. In the beginning, he was not that interested yet. But when we kept on trying and really said to him, “It will be done by you, or nobody else.” Yeah, something happened. And then he said, “Yeah, I want to do it.” And also Simone on the cover of the album, so in the end it was perfect solution.
BM: That’s great.
MJ: Yeah.
BM: Of the two studio albums–or actually, all the albums–what is your favorite Epica album so far?
MJ: I can’t choose between them. That’s impossible. [laughs] Both of them have their charms and both of them are special to me. But I will say it’s like if you have children, I think it’s also not possible to choose which one is your favorite.
BM: That’s true. Yeah, I can understand that.
MJ: Yeah. [laughs]
BM: How, in the last, let’s say four or five years, you’ve–how would you say you’ve progressed as a musician? What has gotten better, your lyrics, your guitar playing, your concepting, what? How have you grown as a musician since the After Forever days? What’s gotten better for you or easier?
MJ: That’s a difficult question. I think what part I really improved is arrangement. When I was in After Forever, the arrangements often needed to be done by different person, who was outside the band, who helped us with arrangement. And nowadays I can make the arrangements myself. And that’s a big step forward.
BM: Oh, that’s great.
MJ: ‘Cause I also now, I also now record all my demo stuff myself, and because I have a little home studio now. And in the past, I also didn’t have all these facilities. So that’s the main improvement, I think.
BM: That’s great. Well, I think I’ve probably taken up enough of your time. I do appreciate it, it’s great to chat with you again. I’m so looking forward to seeing you guys and meeting you. I’ve wanted to see you play live for four or five years now. So this will be great.
MJ: Yeah, yeah, finally.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah, finally it’s going to happen. So we are very excited as well. In two weeks I will have my interview for getting a visa, and ’cause it’s a lot of work to get into the United States.
BM: Yeah.
MJ: But all of this will be worth it.
BM: Yeah, that’s one thing that has kept out a few bands. Let’s say, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the band UFO, but they couldn’t tour in the US.
MJ: Oh yeah, definitely.
BM: So please, make sure you get your visa ducks in a row there, so you can come over here.
MJ: Yeah. Exactly. That’s why we are working on it now already, ’cause we don’t want to be to late with it. And yeah, it’s gonna be some work. And everybody of the band has to go separately to have a own interview. But we are busy with it, and my interview is in about two weeks. So I think I will have my visa in plenty of time.
BM: What is the process, what is the interview like? What do you have to do?
MJ: At first, you have to make a phone call to make an appointment for the interview. And then you have to pay $15 for this phone call. Then when you have this appointment, they will check if you have, they will check your papers, they will check if you have some penalties, they will check if you have been in prison, they will check about possibly fundamentalistic stuff, and when all this is good, then you have to give some information. You have to give fingerprints, and then you get the visa.
BM: Man, that’s a lot.
MJ:[laughs] Yeah.
BM: Is that process the same with other countries, or just trying to get into the US?
MJ: No, it’s only with the US, yeah.
BM: Ok.
MJ: ‘Cause it’s even more easy to get into Israel than into the US.
BM: Is it really? [laughs]
MJ: Yeah. [laughs]
BM: Wow.
MJ: Yes, it’s a big, how do you say, port, the US, but not easy to get in. [laughs]
BM: Yeah, I guess with all the things going on in the world, the need for security is pretty high.
MJ: YEah, yeah, I know. Because I was two weeks before 9/11, I was, we came back from Mexico, After Forever, back to Europe, we made a stop in the US. I was at the airport, I don’t know what city anymore, Houston or something, and I got out of the airport so easily because we had to wait for two hours. I got out of the airport to see something of the city and got back into it very easily. But after 9/11, everything changed so quickly.
BM: Yeah, yeah. I think everybody’s become a little more paranoid and worried about things nowadays.
MJ: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
BM: Well–
MJ: Unfortunately it happened like this, but you can’t do anything about it. Some people, they are paranoid indeed, and that’s not good. But yeah, you have to be secure, that’s one thing for sure.
BM: Yeah, you know, I can’t blame people and countries for wanting to be secure. It’s getting harder to do that these days. But it’s such a pleasure to talk to you. I like your outlook on life. You do seem optimistic, even though the future look pessimistic. You seem like you take things in stride. Like, you take things as they come.
MJ: Yeah, exactly. If you are negative, then for sure nothing will change. If you keep optimistic and try to solve things and give them a little hand, I’m sure my contribution it’s almost nothing. I’m realistic about that. But every small contribution is a contribution, so even if the contribution is minor, then it’s still a contribution. So all the little contributions together make maybe a step. And that’s what I hope for.
BM: That’s great. That’s really cool.
MJ: [laughs]
BM: Well, Mark, keep in touch. If there are any photographs or anything that you’d like to send to me as jpgs or anything, send them to me, and I’ll post them on the Notes From the Other Side web site to help promote Epica and for the ProgPower show.
MJ: Ok.
BM: Send me anything you have.
MJ: I will send to you.
BM: Yeah. That’s great. Do you have my e-mail address?
MJ: Yeah.
BM: Yeah, you do, ’cause you sent me e-mails. [Duh!]
MJ: Yes, yeah.
BM: Well please keep in touch, and I’m looking forward to seeing you guys. It’s gonna be an honor for me. It’s gonna be a pleasure.
MJ: Cool. Thank you for the interview. And it was a pleasure for me also to speak to you after all these years.
BM: Oh yeah. Thank you so much, Mark. Take care and I’ll see you this fall.
MJ: See you. See you later, man. [laughs]
BM: Bye bye, Mark.
MJ: Bye bye.
I love that line “I was happy as a little child.” One of the things I enjoy most about interviewing all of these bands from Europe is how they phrase sentences. Sometimes, perhaps most of the time, they use words in more precise ways that we do in the States. And they tend to speak more from the heart, perhaps.
Anyway, I’m really looking forward to seeing Epica on stage. I think they’re going to blow the doors off!
Epica’s CDs can be found most anywhere. As always, I got mine from Ken Golden at LaserCD.com.
Epica’s official web site is www.epica.nl.
