Zak Stevens: “I just wanna take people somewhere…”
Zak Stevens is a raconteur. The man simply loves to tell stories. Which is great for someone like me who loves to listen.
My interview with vocalist Zak Stevens is in two parts. In the first part, we talked about the new Circle II Circle CD, Burden of Truth. Although I enjoyed our conversation, I didn’t feel that it dug deeply enough. I wasn’t getting to know the man behind the music. So I asked for a follow up interview. That’s when the magic happened.
In total, Zak and I talked for about an hour and a half (over both interviews) about a wide range of topics, including the new CIIC album, his time in Savatage, his relationship with the late Criss Oliva, and what audiences can expect from his super-hot band at the ProgPowerUSA Pre-Party show.
ZS: Hey, Bill?
BM: Yeah.
ZS: This is Zak Stevens.
BM: Zak, how are you?
ZS: What’s up?
BM: Oh, doin’ well, doin’ well.
ZS: Good.
BM: You’re down in Florida, are ya?
ZS: Yep, Tampa.
BM: How’s the weather?
ZS: Hot as hell.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: I’m dying. The humidity is about 101.
BM: Oh god.
ZS: And it’s about 95.
BM: [laughs] Oh man. But you choose to live there, right?
ZS: I can’t help it.
BM: Yeah, well…
ZS: I’m from Columbia, South Carolina.
BM: Oh really?
ZS: I’ll be ok, and then in the winter time I’ll be like, “Damn, how’d I ever do that? I’m freezing!”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: I like the four seasons approach, ’cause down here in Tampa, there are two seasons – hot and hotter.
BM: Yeah, that’s the truth. Yeah, well Michigan’s got all four.
ZS: Hang on, I’m trying to reach under here, I’m dropping everything. How’s it going?
BM: Going great. Doing well tonight. I’m glad you called. It’s nice to talk to you.
ZS: Thank you.
BM: Well tell me about…you know what? The big news now seems to be what’s the deal with AFM postponing the release of your new album?
ZS: Well, I mean, it’s just ’cause when we turned it in, they’re gonna need three months to turn it over. So they want to do the best they can with the marketing effort, you know?
BM: I see.
ZS: And the more time they have to dedicate, to put that marketing effort where they want it to be, then that’s fine, because basically now we can just release it on Black Friday.
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
ZS: That’s what we’re going to do now. The second Friday in October, October 13. It’s Friday the 13th.
BM: That’s great.
ZS: So, from where the concept comes from, the holy blood, holy grail, you know, taking all those theories you read in the book, Holy Blood Holy Grail, or in the movie, The Da Vinci Code, all those theories. What I did with this concept, it has to do with all those theories in the movie and books. Really, it’s just a take on what if you were the one that everybody identified as the one that is the direct, blood lineage to Jesus and all that. From that perspective, it was amazing how much music came out just thinking about what would happen. I mean, you could be a regular person, you know? Have a job, a couple of kids, corporate thing, who knows? And then you get hit with that for like a secret society comes up, “We have information you might need to know about…” And all of a sudden, how would that change your life? And it just seemed to be so much music came out of just thinking about that, it was amazing. And that’s really the basis of the creation of the songs. But you know, it’s pretty basic, it’s not anything too deep. It’s simply: What if you were the one that got the announcement, and how would things maybe change in your life? And that basically was the impetus behind every song. If you look at the titles, you can pretty much figure out the angles that I was coming from. It’s pretty much, if I put myself in that situation, what would–and now you can really go nuts, because there’s so many things in those 11 songs or whatever, it would take forever to go through every detail of what this character went through to me. But I just try, I wrote 11 songs with the lyrics and all that, and that’s ok. But in between those words, there’s just a lot of things that this guy–or this character, man or woman, who knows?–what they go through. And now they’re discovering they have all these, “I had a hunch, I had like intuition and stuff.” But now, they’re able to go capitalize on it all of a sudden, “Hey, I can kind of see things. Oh, I found out now I can heal people.” You know, the song, the third track, “Heal You.” It’s talking about, “Oh man, I’m finding out, oh come and walk up, what’s your problem?” “I’ve never been able to walk.” “Arise, walk.”
BM: Wow.
ZS: You know what I’m saying? You can just fantasize, because really all that stuff’s based on, you know, you read The Da Vinci Code or Holy Blood Holy Grail, they already say up front, “This may or may not have happened, but there’s evidences for just some of it, and it’s really based on fiction.” They actually use that word fiction. So you really don’t have anything to lose. Go ahead and think about it, go nuts. That’s what I did, I went kind of nuts. You know, he goes and helps out with a couple of wars, because there’s gonna be good guys and bad guys, once you’re identified with that particular blood line, bound to have a few enemies. The other cool piece, and by the end of the record, he’s in hiding. And then he’s just going, “Man!” and he’s trying to get the people that couldn’t get along in the world, he gets very involved, in my opinion, he would get very involved in world affairs, kind of become famous, and really use his power, keeping still, keeping people in the dark. You know that line? Do you have that record?
BM: Oh no, not yet. I couldn’t shake it out of Dan at Global Artists. He wouldn’t give me one, so…
ZS: Oh, really? I thought he would for the…ok. Well, you’ll get one soon. We just basically turned it in to the label, so we only have like burned copies anyway, which is terrible. But you gotta have something to listen to. It’s not even mass-produced yet.
BM: Yeah. See, I tried, I really tried. But he said no. AFM won’t let any go.
ZS: Yeah, it’s true because it’s so early in the game, and being that we release in October, I guess it’s deliberate. And see, if we would have had like maybe a month earlier or whatever, I think the release date’s good, I mean, it doesn’t really matter, but if it had been a little earlier, they might have been ok to send stuff out.
BM: How will this effect, then, the stuff you play, the touring? You originally had thought of doing the whole album at ProgPower. How will that affect that?
ZS: Well, we changed up the set tremendously. Now what you have is it’s gonna be coming out right after that. Well, you know, the promotional stuff’s going to be all over from August on, so I have a feeling that people will have this thing. In America, they could move the release date up. That’s just the European release date, October 13.
BM: So there’s a chance.
ZS: If you think about it, our American distributor is actually based in Spain. They kick ass too. I mean, they’ve got that nice distribution style in the United States. But I think they could just make the decision any time to go ahead and move it up. Who knows? But, you know, you never know when they’re going to come out. You can’t plan shows around when it’s gonna come out, there’s so many things to take into consideration. Either it’s gonna hit before you release or it’s gonna be after. So I have a feeling that everybody’s going to know everything by that time. [laughs] I mean, you know stuff leaks out. What are you gonna do? I think that people will have the single, which is gonna be like a four song EP, that’s coming out with the single called “Revelations,” the fourth track. That’s really when he’s going through, “Hey, I’m really figuring out who I am now, and I’m having these revelations, ‘wow’ the stuff I felt is really due to this.” Going through those revelations of understanding who he is or who the character is.
BM: Is there a chance then you might play, like you mentioned on your web site–
ZS: Oh yeah, we’re gonna play stuff, definitely. All we did was take it, and we’re gonna take a little three song teaser. You know, we’ll have the single in there, and we’ll do another couple song teaser in there. Even some people could have already heard it by then. Who knows what happens? The buzz is pretty great now.
BM: Oh yeah. If you look at the ProgPower Forum, everybody’s salivating over this thing.
ZS: Yeah, and they should. It’s really, I’ll tell you what, I’m really happy with it. It just comes from sitting…like I said, it’s not rocket science. It’s just sitting around saying, “What do I feel here?” We know we had the ability in this band. We had the same line up for two records now, thank goodness. Yes, I’ve overcome a hurdle. But you know, it means a lot, and these guys, we’re all dedicated. These guys are dedicated, it shows. And you know, this is really an effort where I didn’t have the same, this isn’t even the same writing as the past. You know, I had been, when Circle II Circle first came out, I had wanted to work with all the guys, with Jon [Oliva] and Chris Caffrey, you know that’s what we’d always done. We retained great relationships, it gave us a chance to have fun. And really, it was kind of my, Circle II Circle was kind of Zak Stevens, so I knew I wanted to get out there and write. Now this is basically an internal band effort for the first time. No outside writing.
BM: That’s an interesting thing, I was going to ask you about.
ZS: Yeah, this is all the guys in the band, and it really, they did an unbelievable effort. You know, I’m now teamed with, you know, [bassist Paul] Mitch Stuart, who’s the main writer contributor right now, and our partnership is real strong. We had a chance to talk tonight, we were just saying we’re pleased with the record, had a chance to listen to it, and what we said tonight was, “Man, great team.” It’s a great team effort.
BM: The one thing Dan did do for me, is told me a lot about Andy Lee. He said, “This guy is a super star.”
ZS: He’s amazing.
BM: Tell me about Andy. How did you hook up with him and what is his strength?
ZS: Well he’s been with us, as a guitar player since The Middle of Nowhere.
BM: Right.
ZS: You know, did all those tours, now going into this, he’s just on fire. He’s just really, it’s a thing where you’ve grown within the organization, you’ve grown into where’s your place in Circle II Circle. The stuff he did in these songs, once you hear it, I mean he just took, he just, wow. He just takes you to a place, I mean, he takes you somewhere every time. And, you know, to me, it’s a song within a song now, which is exciting, ’cause every one of his leads I can sing you. Because if you make a lead that’s memorable and somebody can sing it? I mean, some of the stuff he plays so fast, I can’t sit there and [sings fast], it’s too sweet. I can’t really, that’s just gonna be silly for me to do. But the main bulk of the riff is fairly melodic. You can remember the melody. It’s pretty amazing. But we’ll be sending it to you soon and you can check it out. You’ll follow it very easily from beginning to end. You’ll read a million things into it. I want everybody to read what they wanna read into it.
BM: Well, tell me about, obviously Da Vinci Code made a huge impact on you. What, when you read the book, what did you think? Did you automatically think, “Whoa, this is amazing, I gotta do something with this?” How did that happen?
ZS: No, to me, it wasn’t like it was the most profound thing in the world, there’s a lot of theories, but you can think what you want to think. I thought there was a lot of basis for it, I think it’s possible, and just knowing that it was a little possible was enough. And then I just started doing some inward thinking, and saying, “Hey, let’s put this on, do some self-[reflection], what if that was you? What if, me?” And wow, so much music came out of that. So much inspiration for songs just kind of flowed one after another, boom, boom, boom. I’m like, “This is great to do a record to. Look at all the inspiration for a record that it’s given me. I’m sitting here with 20 songs I gotta cut down to 11.” And I went, wow. Just that alone made me want to do it. I didn’t sit down and say, “Ok, the best novel ever, I rate it a five and I’m gonna do a record about it.” No. I mean, there was some good stuff in it, ok, everybody’s got their feeling about it, the Holy Blood Holy Grail book as well, they’re very intriguing. I read them so fast I couldn’t even put them down from cover to cover. Because they’re just so gripping. But I’m not Siskel and Ebert going out there, put a five on it, I’m doing a record on it. No. It was just about taking it, internalizing it, and then all of a sudden all this music came out. I went, “You know what? For no other reason other than I’m gonna get a lot of good material for this damn record, I think I’m gonna do something on this.” [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
ZS: So they just started flowing. You know, the creative juices just started flowing like that.
BM: Wow. Man, that’s–
ZS: To the artist who needs inspiration, it’s a good thing when it’s inspiring you to your best.
BM: What did you think of the movie?
ZS: Uh, it was good. I think I liked it a lot more than a lot of people. It involved all phases of some criminal to just holy to dark. There’s a lot of intriguing stuff. But you know, everybody’s got their own feeling about it, and it’s a tough religious theme. You know, the two things you don’t talk about at parties, politics and religion. I’ve got to be careful in interviews this time around, because I don’t talk about religion, but hey, it’s possible, let me tell ya, blah blah blah. That will be the saying, everybody has to have their own religious take, which is great.
BM: What would you say is the hardest part, then, of recording Burden of Truth? Was it just knowing what to keep out, or what? What was the toughest part?
ZS: Yeah, kind of. Kind of putting together the songs in the right order, what fits, what’s the best package, what not to show is usually more important than what to show. And it’s like that usually.
BM: Does this stand on it’s own or do people kind of need to know these other books or the scenarios to make it work for them?
ZS: No, you don’t really have to know. I don’t think you have to really even read, because there you’re reading the scientific theory part, whereas here you’re reading someone’s interpretation, what if it was me? What if I was directly related to Jesus through the marriage of Mary Magdalene. Let’s just say it was true. I’m just instead of thinking of the future, I’m taking it to the present. I’m asserting that it’s true, and then I’m saying what if it were me. So it takes you to another place.
BM: Well, I am looking forward to hearing it. Does it have any of those way beyond cool multi-part big harmonies going on?
ZS: Yep, that’s right. We’ve got some of that.
[At this point, Zak’s wife phones him again. He tells me he has something going on with his family that he needs to take care of.]
ZS: You know, I apologize for that. Maybe I can call you right back.
BM: Well take your time. If there’s something going on, just take care of it and don’t worry about anything. Call me when you get a chance.
ZS: Oh man, I’m sorry about that. I hope we don’t have to do that. But this is good so far, right?
BM: Oh, I’m diggin’ it. There’s a lot of questions I want to delve into, but this is great stuff. Your enthusiasm is contagious.
ZS: Well have to put it together.
[Zak and I traded voicemails over the next day or two and finally found a time that worked for us three days after our first interview began.]
BM: Hello?
ZS: Hey.
BM: How you doin’, Zak?
ZS: Good, how’s it going?
BM: Good, doing well. Well, I appreciate your time today.
ZS: You got it. Thank you.
BM: Well, tell me about, let’s chat a little bit about your latest album a second, just the fact that…well first of all, let me ask you about Glenn Harveston. He wrote on the ProgPower Forum: “I’m a Circle II Circle fan and worship at the alter of Zak’s voice.” He makes no bones about that. A lot of people feel that way. What do you think it is about your singing style, your voice, your arrangements that really turns people on? Have you ever sat back and thought about that?
ZS: Well, it’s tough to think about. You’re just kind of glad that when you get there to sing and everything starts coming out of your mouth that people are reacting positively to it. I’ve thought about it. It could just be the technical aspect of the vocals, I mean, I got kinda serious about being a vocalist that does a lot of vocal tricks. You know, holds out notes, has a decent range, stuff like that. Trying to take it to the maximum point that I can do it. So I got kind of involved in the technical voice training and stuff like that, and that’s about 50%, and the other 50% is just like feel. You’ve gotta really feel it in your heart, do stuff you believe in so that you can remain believable. And I think that’s the two keys right there.
BM: Yeah, well it works. The other day when we were talking we talked about touring, being a band on the road. I was talking to Chris Caffery about a week or so ago. He had a lot on his mind about his latest album, the state of the world, the state of the recording industry, being a band on the road today. He more or less said, “This is a horrible time in history for bands to be on the road.” How do you feel about that? Do you echo that? Do you think that, or are you having a good time out on the road, no problems?
ZS: Well, when we’re out there, we just try to be careful to pick the package that’s going to work and that’s kind of hard sometimes. You wanna get out there with the right bands around you, and that’s the big challenge for us coming up with Burden of Truth, because it’s the kind of record that you really want to go all the way, and get some decent tours and get on with some big names, whether it be big names in European metal, like that tour, that show last night, like Vince Neil and Ratt, even. You get somebody, they want to add to their venue, then we’re the perfect one for that. Circle II Circle is an upcoming band that they would remember stuff from Savatage, it’s that age group, I don’t know what it was, 7-10 thousand, age probably 30-40. But see, that’s the one. That’s the age group going out and buying tickets now. I think that you’re gonna have to be really selective and be smart about who you’re target audience is. And just try to go and maximize the market. That’s why Circle II Circle’s getting played on XM Radio. But that’s the kind of thing, that’s the breaks you gotta go, “Hey, there’s a reason to that, and what market does that pertain to?” You go out, you study the market, and you start doing things around that. But you have to get help, so when you see help come, you gotta read where is that help coming from, how can I better maximize this thing? So that’s all I’m doing right now, is just doing whatever we can do to get the band out there where it should be.
BM: Well, I’ve talked to you a few times on the phone now, and to me you just sound like a real positive, nice guy. You seem to laugh a lot. Is your outlook on life positive? Whereas, I may have caught Chris in a negative or cynical mood you seem to be very positive at this time in your life.
ZS: Yeah. I think I’ve learned. At one point in my life, I tended to be negative. More negative about things and just being impatient and stuff like that, and really just letting all that stuff get to me. But over time, especially, I think having kids, having my two girls, a two year old and an eight year old, I look in those kids and they’re me. And you can study yourself like that. And I think, “Thank goodness.” Thanks to the miracle of having those daughters, Cassidy and Zoë, they’re showing me stuff about me that I can see in myself. And then you start to recognize that, then you want to, what’s the pay off of…you know, I’ve known Chris for many, many years. He’s really kind of a positive person too, really. As far as the guy I’ve known for all these years. He’s just a bit frustrated right now. I don’t think he’s a negative person over all. I think he is positive. We’re both real positive. But I think frustration will set in at one point. It’s ok. Frustration’s ok, it’s all the way you handle it. You wanna handle it and use it to teach you a lesson, to get over that obstacle, and just do the best you can like that. But I can, I’ll probably just have to get the boy playing a few songs with Circle II Circle. Put a smile on his face a little bit.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: You know, I have to get him to jump up on stage. Maybe do one of his songs on vocals. That’s tough. Serious, some of the stuff he does is pretty hard. He’s kind of come along and really surprised me and I’m proud of him for his vocal effort. Back when we first started singing on the road with Savatage, he’s come light-years. Back then, I was already supposed to be, I’m hired to be the top gun vocal guy, so I got to watch everybody in their evolution of learning to sing. Because Jon, you know, Jon came before me, so that doesn’t count. But everybody else, I really got to see that whole evolution, so I can appreciate it.
BM: Well, I’d mentioned to him when I talked to him, I said, “Man, your vocal in that song ‘Amazing Grace’ is incredible.”
ZS: Yeah. I’m really proud of him. Hey, that shows that he’s positive, ’cause he’s willing to take on another whole role and do that in his solo effort, and really get out there and take a chance and put it on the line. I really respect that.
BM: Oh yeah, so do I. I’ve seen him in TSO like six times or so and he always looks like he’s having a great time.
ZS: He loves it.
BM: I think it’s the subject matter of his album which comes from the state of the world that is getting him down. That’s what I talked to him about. I asked him why he wrote his latest album, what his mindset was, etc. The world seemed to be getting him down, the way it does me sometimes. So you’re right. I just think getting him out on the road, like you said, would perk him right up.
ZS: Yeah. I think when you get out there and do what you like. He’s been doing Europe over there with Jon, and they’re getting out there having fun. Jon’s over in Europe right now with JOP [Jon Oliva’s Pain], so they’re out there doing what they want to do, and that’s what matters, just whatever everybody’s gotta to do to be happy somehow. Everybody can find a niche. My niche is doing the vocals and then I was able to after Savatage get a solo deal, that’s a bit of a niche and you just have to go from there.
BM: Tell me about your kids. When I was talking to Lance King, his family was kind of in the background. His wife was making jokes about him, and I was talking to him about his son. I asked him if his kid likes to hear the kind of music he plays. How ’bout you? Does your eight year old like the stuff you play? What does she listen to? Is your family really supportive of you and they like what you’re doing?
ZS: Yeah. Definitely. We just have, we just finished the record here and I’ve been off in the studio with just one CD, and you’ve got about three months where you don’t have any packaged, mass-produced packaged item, but you live off these things. And believe me, my eight year old’s knocking the door down to get hers, might as well go ahead and burn her a copy of my–I don’t even know if I’m allowed to say “burn.” But being in the music business, sometimes you’ll be standing with people in the music business and I’ll go, “Yeah, burn me one” and they’ll look at you like, “What did you just…? You just committed the cardinal sin of all music! People aren’t supposed to burn anything. Die, die, die.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: There’s a value there. I don’t really buy all that because I think there’s a value in, marketing is about giving a bunch away, sometimes you can get interest. Like, I don’t give a lot away at all or do anything, ’cause I do respect that you’re not supposed to burn it all and the plague the music industry is going through because of it. But for your kid, it’s just another story. Sorry. I’m gonna do it anyway. She don’t believe me. She’s not gonna stop until I got it burned and wrote that, she kept saying, “Write that special message on there.”
BM: Oh, that’s great.
ZS: So I go, “Here’s the OT, Burden of Truth. Love, Dad A/F (always/forever) LOL.”
BM: That is too cool.
ZS: Daddy Stevens!
BM: Daddy Stevens. [laughs]
ZS: No, I didn’t write that.
BM: Well, you know what’s interesting, is I can picture that. When I read about that you left Savatage to spend more time with your family, I was thinking, “Oh yeah, right. That’s like a common way to exit a band you have problems with.” But now that I talk to you, it sounds like you really did that, didn’t you?
ZS: Well, yeah. I mean, not just that. People, really it was just a combination of things happened at that time. It was just a pinpoint in time. It was, I think where I was moving. So I’m moving out of a house we’d been in for a few years, we had just, I think Cassidy was only one or two years old, and yeah, she was two years old in ‘99, and that’s when all that went down. So you got this young child thing, two new parents–me and my wife–totally new parents. You know how much of a lesson in life that is. And so, being the first born and all that, you’ve got a few things, you’re moving, and you think, “Hey, I need about two or three months to really let everything, let the dust settle here. And I think that at first two or three months didn’t sound so great to them, and then it got to be even more. And then I’m like, “Gosh, we haven’t really done a record in a while.” And what are you going to do? You can’t just sit around forever and wait for a record. So, now we go and we do three Circle II Circle records.
BM: Well, I was gonna say, how did you know it was time? It was about three years between Savatage and the first Circle II Circle album. When did you–did you say, “Wife, it’s time”? Did you guys just realize it together? How did you figure that out? Did it just feel right to start making music again?
ZS: Well, I just couldn’t even, I could never even imagine not playing. I know that music is always going to be a part of me, you know? It always was, it’s a huge part of my life, really. You look back at my high school annuals, I’m like captain of the drum line, captain of the percussion section for three out of four years in high school. I had the best scores as a Freshman but they’re not gonna give captain to a Freshman ’cause you got no experience. So I said, “No problem, I wouldn’t know what the hell to do. I got the high scores, good. Just put me on snare and we’ll do this thing. Or quads, whatever. Just not bass drum or cymbals.” No.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: But you know, you look at my whole life, middle school band, I started playing drums when I was nine, started singing when I was nine, because my best friend’s big brother who was a guitar player and so was my best friend, his little brother said, “They’ve got that talent show coming up…and you guys wanna go in it. So here’s what we’re gonna do.” And there wasn’t a discussion or decision on it, his brother just goes, “Look, here’s what we’re gonna do. You don’t have a say in it, listen. Ok, Zak, you’re gonna do drums and sing, because we don’t have a singer, and we don’t have time to get a singer. So we know you can sing a little bit, so we wanna do a couple of Eagles songs, one KISS song, and a CCR, Credence Clearwater Revival.” And somehow, we started practicing, ’cause my buddy was playing bass, and I hadn’t really dabbled with it, he goes, “Now I’m handing you off to the drum expert, my other good friend.” His name was James, he was the same age as my best friend’s big brother, Chuck, the guitar player. So the one who’s instigating all that. So he goes, “I’m handing you off now, Zak, to James. He’s the drummer expert around here, I’m a guitar player. He’ll show you what to do for the show.” And I went, “Ok.” [laughs] And he goes, “Do this, now, you gotta take the right hand and go [snare drum sound], you know, like that.” And I went, “Oh, ok. [snare drum sound]” and I think I even fancied it up a bit, it was so easy, and he was like, “You are a natural drummer. You’re in.” And then I sang, and I remember the first time I was on stage, I was so nervous, I’m 10 years old, fifth grade, we won the talent show, by the way, we won.
BM: Congratulations.
ZS: And the biggest controversy among the 10 year olds and eight year olds and seven year olds at the school was, “It wasn’t real, it was recorded.” That’s what the mentality was.
BM: Oh really? They thought you were lip synching?
ZS: Yep, that’s the mentality of a 10 year old.
BM: A recorded talent show. [laughs]
ZS: So there was a pack that kind of separated off and started a rumor, but of course, it was real. We plugged in the amp, we beat on drums, and we sang.
BM: Wow.
ZS: And we did the songs. But I was so nervous, that I almost shook so hard I almost dropped the drumsticks right out of my hand.
BM: [laughs] So you–
ZS: Then all of a sudden, when I went, “One, two, [sings a few lines]” You know this song, don’t you?
BM: So your first song was “Proud Mary”?
ZS: Yep, exactly. So once I started, I was ok. But up until that point, I thought I was gonna die. See, that’s my first stage fright experience. Every time after that I’ve never had stage fright again.
BM: Really?
ZS: After the first performance, 10 years old. It was so traumatic, I just think that I got it all out on that one. My god, I’ve never really had that, I mean, you get nervous, you know, you gotta go pee. “I gotta go pee right before I go on stage, and I gotta time it right. ‘Cause once I get nervous, everything’s gonna kick in and I’m gonna have to urinate.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: ‘Cause that’s the biggest challenge, you know, band members, right before they go on stage, I think it’s the timing of that last urination, ’cause you don’t wanna get up there having to pee. Then you’re stuck up there.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: Really. I don’t know how I got on that, really, you wanna get technical. I mean, I’m not worried about–first you gotta worry about your voice [sings a warm up]. Ok, I’m going through vocal scales. Then I’m like, “I gotta pee in one minute and 32 seconds.” And you shoot off to the side. And if it’s a real dump, if it’s a real dump, you take your cup from earlier, and you’re gonna fill the cup up a little bit, and then head on stage.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: You ask ‘em all. It’s funny, because it’s real.
BM: Of course. So you started your career as a drummer? How did you make the transition to leave the sticks behind and just be a frontman vocalist?
ZS: All right. When I got out of college, the University of South Carolina, I moved to Los Angeles and went to a school called Vocal Institute of Technology in Hollywood. It’s a real famous vocal school. It used to just have, it was VIT and GIT.
BM: Yeah, I remember the Guitar Institute, yeah.
ZS: Yeah, GIT was the guitar school. This was the vocal side. It was run at the time by a guy named [name unclear]. He was a really good singer, a pretty famous kind of guy. But he was a great vocal teacher. And then they had like three or four other vocal teachers that you got sectioned off with and every day you’d go to classes, it was intense, you’re learning about music, like Music Theory 400, you know, slamming at you. Then they’d make you go sing in front of everybody. “Get up there and kick ass. Quit smoking. If you don’t quit smoking, we’re going to drop you out from the school.” You couldn’t smoke and go to that school for vocals.
BM: Well, yeah. Makes sense.
ZS: If they found out you smoked, you were actually suspended. You were suspended.
BM: Really?
ZS: Yeah, suspended for smoking. And the guy who sang “Smoking in the Boy’s Room”? He got busted. No.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: But you know, he had girls and guys. You know, I did well. I didn’t win the best vocalist, you know, they give like a best overall student. I didn’t win that, but I was probably one of the best overall singers.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: But they wanted you to really like be showing up early, and getting all these grades. Like I missed a few classes to drink some beer. It was post college, so I felt like celebrating.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: It was too, like I may have gotten too drunk or something and I was late, so they didn’t like that part about me. They said, “He’s really talented, but he parties a little bit and was late to some things.” It gets very political.
BM: [laughs] Yeah?
ZS: But I would go back anytime, you know? Geez, I wish I could do a good record one day and, and go, “Yep, I went to VIT”, and they’d go, “Oh, come on over and perform for the people going now.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: They do that. I would love to do that. We had so many people that went to VIT who were really good performance artist who would stop back in. And that’s what we did, we would go to the shows like that when artists came back.
BM: Oh, cool.
ZS: And that was pretty cool, ’cause, “He went to VIT? All right! The proof’s in the pudding.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: These guys are singing good, so anyway.
BM: Well, tell me about–
ZS: You know, that’s how I made the transition. I mean, I know it was a long-winded story, but geez, I got around to it.
BM: No, that’s perfect.
ZS: But the transition from drums–but I’ve always played drums. I still do today.
BM: That’s interesting, ’cause [former Journey vocalist] Steve Perry started out as a drummer, and then became a world-class vocalist himself.
ZS: Yeah.
BM: Yep.
ZS: There’s something to the rhythm.
BM: Yeah, that may be.
ZS: You know, good singers have to have this built-in sort of internal rhythm. And not what Vince Neil had last night. No, I’m just kidding.
BM: [laughs] How did Circle–answer a basic question for me. How did Circle II Circle get its name? Where did that come from? What does it mean?
ZS: Well, really we have this thought that we’re just–I’ve been involved in so many circles of musicians, different groups, stuff like that. So we just basically said, “Hey, we’re moving from one circle, to a little bit different circle of friends over here, but we’re still going to share everything we learned, so you’re still interconnected.” It’s kind of like circle to circle, like the infinity symbol.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: Because there’s two circles that kind of come together when you look at the infinity symbol. So really, we just wanted to infinitely just keep doing this style of music, work with people we did in the past, you know. This is the first record where I didn’t sit down with Jon and Chris and write songs, ’cause they’re so busy now, but it’s ok. Our band guys are amazing, it was there time to step up and do the big thing. And we got that accomplished, I feel, on Burden of Truth. But that’s it, you know. For me, I’m here again, it’s Circle II Circle again, because we did that, we connected the circle with Jon, the past, it was Chris and John, the Savatage connection to Circle II Circle. Now, I’ve just made a connection with my own band guys.
BM: Well, you know that’s what people are saying. They’re saying this is the first actual Circle II Circle album where this is all your band. This is your baby now, you’re stepping out.
ZS: Mmhm.
BM: What’s the hard–
ZS: Yeah, I mean, no, I was just saying, it’s always been my baby as far as the way the flavor of the songs came across. Even though I’m writing with Jon and Chris, I still thought it was my baby, you know what I’m saying? So that was still all my influence on the vocal thing, and the song writing, but their riffs are awesome, you know?
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: So I thought it was good, I think it was a necessary thing just to preserve that kind of music, you know? Let those guys get together and put out some good music, you know? We probably can’t get enough of good teamwork, you know what I’m saying, as far as that Savatage writing thing? With Jon and his abilities, they’re just unspeakable, crazy song writing abilities. He can just go on and on, just produce stuff. “What do you want, I’m on song 38 and it’s midnight.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: No, but, “Jon, you’ve got one verse in each.” No. But, “Get your little butt back over there.” [laughs] But also, you have Paul O’Neill, huge influence on me, you know.
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: Great guy. We were both Pices, which is why I think it was a crazy situation. He got the best out of me, that’s for sure. But I, watching him and Jhn and that combo, back when they, and even Criss Oliva on Bed of Thorns.
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: But watching all that, that’s what I try to still keep a little spirit of. But then I got my twist on it, so I’m kind of keeping the spirit and I putting a big old Zak Stevens twist on it.
BM: Well, there’s–you brought up a lot of questions. Criss Oliva, what was it like working with him?
ZS: Oh, amazing. He took me right under his wing and made me like a brother. You know, his thing was, “If you’re gonna join the band, which by the way, you did get the gig”, and I’m like, “Wow.” “Now we will do a fast-paced melding exercise.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: “You’re living with me for the whole time we’re doing the record.” And I said, “All right, great.” So really, he did, he was just cool the way he did that. He just said, “You’re gonna do an accelerated pace.” In other words, I hadn’t been around for five or six years as a friend to do this, so we’re gonna accelerate the pace and get to know each other and really get a bond. And that was pretty cool. I’ll always remember the way he did that. So he’s smart, you know? Let’s get him into the, let’s say the mission statement.
BM: [laughs] Mission statement.
ZS: You know, you’ve got your mission statement, and just you’re, the things you run the band by. Here’s how we’re gonna act in the band and here’s who we are and what we project on stage. You know what I’m saying? Just get integrated with the whole thing. So that was really good that he was willing to do that, ’cause I had to go a very long way in a very short time. All of a sudden they’re putting out a new record without Jon singing, and the whole world is going, “What?! You’ve gotta be shitting me.”
BM: Yep.
ZS: And I’m the guy that has to go in and pull that off in like, four months.
BM: Oh wow.
ZS: So see? You’re under pressure all the time in the business. You’re under the gun. And you know what he did, I’ll always have that. Plus, you know, I love the guy. And really by the end of all of it, a whole year and a half or whatever it was, it was September ‘92, and it was all the way until October ‘93. It was almost a year, right?
BM: Right.
ZS: So it really wasn’t that long. We really grew up, because it was in October ‘93 and that was it. That was that fateful night, see. It seemed like years, and I’m going, “It wasn’t five years? That’s just weird. So many things happened!” It seems like it was multiple years still. And this is a trip, ’cause I never really think back. It was just a year. But, golly, so many things happened, it seemed like a five year span. But you know, I grew up and changed and really got flexibility and still retain who you are. That was the trick. Be flexible, but I knew I couldn’t try to sound like Jon. That would ruin everything. You gotta go in and just be yourself. And that’s what won.
BM: Well, I didn’t know you actually lived with Criss.
ZS: Yeah, I lived right, yeah, man. We lived together the whole dang time until we finished the record. Then after that, he just, “You have graduated son, you may leave the premises.”
BM: [laughs] “When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.”
ZS: [laughs] “Take this bread from me.” [laughs] No. It was kind of like that, you know, it was like, “I will now remove your sensor tracking device that tracks you anywhere you go by GPS. It is now removed, son. Go and even have a date.” And I’m like, “Thank you! Thanks, boss, brother.”
BM: Given what you –
ZS: I might now have time to have a date.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: ‘Cause believe me, it was just music and business for a long time there. But that’s what it needed, everybody need to focus. But it was just unbelievable, amazing stuff. I can go on and on, you know that. It’s just amazing stuff.
BM: Being as close as you were to Criss, having him die like that in a car accident, unexpectedly, that must have devastated you as a young vocalist just starting out. Especially since you had lived with him for a solid year.
ZS: Yeah, it was just, whew. I didn’t know what to, you know, I was just kinda like, in disbelief, and probably denial for probably a good week. I’m like, “That–no.” It was just, I was freaked. It was a really crazy reaction. And of course, a lot of mourning and I’d all of a sudden just start crying riding down the road. Oh, and I know what caused it. I would look up and see you know, anything, even something as little as looking up and seeing a 98 Rock station billboard from Clear Channel.
BM: Looking back on your Savatage years, then, what is your favorite album from that time? What’s your best memory of the Savatage albums? What do you remember the most and like the most?
ZS: Well, really, there was a time when I lived in Los Angeles, going to that vocal school, where Savatage came and played a couple of times in Los Angeles. So we, me and Dan, ’cause he was guitar tech for Criss, Dan Campbell. And he would say, “Hey, let’s go see the guys.” And I’d go, “Cool.” So I had really met Criss one time before I got the gig, and that was another thing he liked. He was like, “He was kind of cool when we hung out and stuff.” So we hung out one night all night in their hotel room, from like right after the show, midnight until, geeze, seven or eight in the morning. They were still partying. Oh boy, you know that bunch.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: Ay yi yi, when you see the sun come up, it’s a horror show. But no, we had a great time, and it was cool, and Ray was there, Ray Gillan of Badlands.
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: Ray was there all night. And I think he was sick. He had had AIDS by that time. We didn’t know. He died of AIDS, which is sad, ’cause we all knew him, we got to hang out with him a lot, and that was fun. He was a great singer. Mmm. But, it was just that we got to hang out a couple times, so you know, I–really a great memory is, Gutter Ballet.
BM: Oh yeah!
ZS: I really like that album, because it symbolizes the time, it was released right when I moved to LA, you know, just about that same kind of time. So that was a timing thing, and it was like I was always looking forward to seeing what the next Savatage record was gonna sound like, ’cause I was really a fan of Savatage first, really. I’m just a Savatage fan. So when I got the gig, it was like, “Wow, a fan gets the gig. Hey, I can’t tell them that.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: No, they knew it already, ’cause I had all their records and stuff. [laughs] But, you know, I was one of the fans of course that were sitting there looking forward to seeing what’s going to be on this Gutter Ballet thing. It’s really, you know, really great, so I’m just jamming to it. And playing it constantly in my apartment. Then we get to go see them on that tour, so I think for those reasons, Gutter Ballet’s real special.
BM: Yeah. I love that album.
ZS: “Summer’s Rain,” that song especially is huge. It’s probably one of my favorite Savatage songs of all time. I love that, “Summer’s Rain.”
BM: Yeah, yeah.
ZS: That was good stuff. The guitar solo in that is mind-blowing. That might be one of his best solos ever.
BM: I think that’s probably, of that era, that time period, that’s probably one of my favorite albums, Gutter Ballet. In fact, I was just listening to it last week.
ZS: I would say that one and Edge of Thorns being my first one and the whole experience. And you know, they’re all great. I could sit here and say [The Wake of] Magellan, Dead Winter Dead, Handful of Rain, you know, they all had their fun, special moments, you know?
BM: [laughs] Well yeah, they’re all really great albums. How about contrast now with Circle II Circle. When you look at the three albums you’ve made, I know you’re saying this one, Burden of Truth is the album you’ve been wanting to make your whole life. What–
ZS: Well, you know they all really were. I try to put the, do the best we can on every one of them, and you know, they’re really a piece, like I said, a piece of coming from Savatage. Of course, it’s gonna have that with the writing team. And that’s ok, then I wanted to just add my little twist. You know, just a little bit more of what I would have done, if I could have just done all the lyrics, vocals, all of it.
BM: Sure.
ZS: But just that’s where the different flavors come in. And I’ve been writing as well. My rock riffs are just, maybe, I don’t know, just a little different but not anything extraordinary. But just the way I write the rock riffs, with the guitar or keyboards or whatever it is, and with these guys, you know, you’re just going to have your own little flavor, and that’s what separates the music slightly, and gives it a little bit of a twist there.
BM: Those big, multipart vocal harmonies–[The Wake of] Magellan had them, Dead [Winter Dead] had them–those are phenomenal. How long does it take you to conceive and create some of that. Let’s say for “The Middle of Nowhere.” There’s phenomenal stuff going on there. How long does that take? In your mind, are you hearing all those parts, or do they build slowly, over time as you’re in the studio?
ZS: Well, what I do is I’ll decide what song, like we’ll have our songs, and I’ll decide what song is going to be the one where I put, what we call counterpoint. Like counterpoint vocal melody, you know, where to make it the thing happen.
BM: Yeah, I love that.
ZS: So first I identify the song. Then I listen to what part to put it in. What riff is playing at that time. So then I look at that and I go, “Hmm, the first line needs to be [sings]” and then I’ll go, based on that you bring in something medium tempo, and then you bring in something more wordy, something that’s got a little more percussiveness, and you kind of layer that right on top. And then maybe the third one would be more like an overall drone, that’s really long notes, that’s just you know, so you’ll probably hear that when you go back and listen to it next time. [laughs] But there’s a formula, and the cool thing is, every one you use it in is gonna have a different formula. We did it again in Burden of Truth. We put it in the title track, “Burden of Truth.”
BM: Oh man.
ZS: And it really goes to the next level. It goes as far as you can take it, you know? I think I may have maxed it out this time.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: But you know, this formula was different. But it really came together really nice. And it doesn’t really take a long time to do it, I just kinda sit there and go, melodies really come easy, so I just wanna find out what’s gonna be the rhythmic–you know what I’m saying?–what’s the rhythmic pattern gonna be, do we have to have long notes in this, or this one’s gonna be more percussive, more lyrics–’cause the more percussive you get the more lyrics you’ve got. [sings a percussive lyric] Ok, you just had to have 14 words.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: Whereas [sings I love you] ok, that’s three. So if you get crazy like I do and start going [sings percussive lick], you’d better get ready to write, my son.
BM: [laughs] Is that counterpoint thing something you have to–is it like too much of a good thing, do you want to use it a lot?
ZS: No. I just want to use it one time a record, and probably I’ve done it, now I’ve done it three times, I’ll probably look to do something else next time. But I just found a good place for it, and man, it just worked out really good. And here’s the thing, still nobody’s really doing it out there, so sometimes I feel like I just wanna throw it in there because I just want to get a, put a piece out there again where people might take notice, you know, the masses have a chance to take. ‘Cause you know, you don’t wanna stop doing it all of a sudden as the masses were suddenly ready to notice it, and you didn’t have it there, and you’re like, “Oh, nobody does this.” Seal, you know, Seal does a little of that.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: Yes, he does two bars. He couldn’t take it to that third and fourth one. Paul O’Neill kind of developed it and I kind of like was his, “I need you, you’re my number one right hand mad scientist in this development of counterpoint melody” guy.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: “Definition?” And we’d get the chalkboard out, “Definition of counterpoint melody.” No. [laughs]
BM: So see, it is rocket science, isn’t it? [laughs]
ZS: Yeah, if it’s Paul O’Neill, it’s pretty much rocket science. No, he’s a very smart, technical guy.
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: But you know, eccentric, and it’s just wild to watch him work. You know, it is a formula and I think that it–the best thing is each song is going to have its own formula, so that’s kinda good, ’cause you can’t just go with one formula, and everyone goes, “Oh, he just does the same thing.” You know, the formula has to change. The concept remains the same, but the formula, the way you perform it is gonna be completely different song to song. So this was a different formula, we finally figured out, I swear, it was just like a chemical, scientific formula and I finally got it done. And what the further formula, the further formula when we take it out and expand it, and I have to assign the panning to each part, and I have to go, “Where are we going to bring, are we gonna bring the harmony in on a different side than we brought the lead in? Does it always line up with the harmony?” And I take it to the next level and before that next bar starts, you’ve got a harmony to build. So then, you know, we look at, “Ok, we want it to come up the middle, then we want to move it to the right. Ok, then when that second part comes in, we wanna spread one and two, and bring number two right up the middle.” You know what I’m saying? And I try to figure all that out. I put T1L, left side. D1H, D1 harmony, r. Send it to the right. Part two, main, M, middle, or spread slightly, ’cause you can do panning where you don’t have to be all the way right or left, you can be halfway between right and left, you know, half way between center and right, and you can go half way between left and center, you know what I’m saying? You don’t have to be one way or another, you can really go any increment in there. So now you’re probably saying, “Why’d I ask that damn question?”
BM: No! I love the answers. It’s great. I think people are going to love to read this kind of stuff. It’s great.
ZS: Oh good, good. And that’s really, believe me, and you hit on it, it does become a scientific formula.
BM: Well, tell me your favorite Circle II Circle song. Is there a song or two that you guys play on stage that you just love to play? I mean, over and above your usual passion, is there a couple of songs?
ZS: [laughs] Circle II Circle songs?
BM: Yes.
ZS: Let me see.
BM: I mean your favorite–
ZS: I like, let me see, I don’t know, it’s hard. Golly. You know, “Watching in Silence.” [title track from the first CIIC album] I love playing “Watching in Silence,” because the crowd always, you know, I can see them moving up and down to the beat.
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: Duh da da, the all go bop, bop, bop, bop. So then when you get that and they recognize it as the title track, that’s kind of what makes that one fun to play. ‘Cause they’re reacting to it and stuff. You know I like the stuff like “Into the Wind.” [also from the first album]
BM: Oh yeah.
ZS: You know, [sings], signature Jon Oliva record. And you know, [sings “Into the Wind”], you know [sings guitar part]. That’s kind of good stuff. That mid, almost slower melodic metal stuff I like. I don’t know, on Middle of Nowhere, what do we like to play on that? Let’s see, what do I like to do on that? I like, I’ll tell you one song that really comes across live really good is [sings “Holding On”]. You know?
BM: Yeah, yeah.
ZS: [sings], and then [sings guitar riff], you know, that moves along good. Let’s see. What else? Man, it’s hard to say. They seem to just go by, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom.
BM: You know what one of my favorite riffs is?
ZS: One of your favorites?
BM: One of my favorite riffs on Middle of Nowhere, I absolutely love “Cynical Ride.” That’s a killer–
ZS: Oh yeah, “Cynical Ride,” that’s a great one.
BM: Killer riff, man.
ZS: [sings riff] That’s Caffrey. [sings riff] Yeah, great.
BM: Yeah, that’s it. Have the other guys, have your friends from the Savatage days, have they heard a copy of your new album yet? What do they think about it?
ZS: I don’t know. It’s so early, man. We just finished it. We practically just finished it. I haven’t even had time to burn, like I said, the first one I got to burn was my daughter chasing me down.
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
ZS: She could probably tackle me now. She’s one of those big, strong kids.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: She’s kind of muscular, I’m like, “Oh man, she’s strong as an ox.” I mean, wrestling her, I’m like, “I don’t understand this.” Then my two year old comes over, and she’ll just kick you and punch you–no. [laughs] Zoe’s got a little mean streak in her. I don’t know what’s gonna happen with Zoë.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: You know, you tell her to do something, she goes, “No, I don’t wanna do that, Daddy.”
BM: Her name is Zoë?
ZS: Yeah.
BM: That’s cool.
ZS: “No Daddy, I’m not gonna clean up my room like you just asked.”
BM: And she’s two years old saying that?
ZS: Yep. And she’s already totally argumentative. You know, it’s just so strange. “Hey, Zoë, get off that bed!” “No! I wanna keep jumping.”
BM: Well don’t they say that’s the terrible twos?
ZS: Yeah, it is. She’ll probably get sweet after that, and then you know how bad that is. [laughs] Who knows, maybe she’ll turn the page. But yeah, it is terrible twos.
BM: [laughs] Well, what can audiences expect from you guys at ProgPower this year?
ZS: Well, we’re gonna do, seeing as the release date is October, what we’ll do–but see, all the promotional stuff is gonna start in August, so people will know at least half the record. So we’ll just go play three or four, just all, like maybe three songs off the new record, because it’s not really released yet. But we’re gonna do some Savatage, special Savatage stuff, and I’ll savor it, you know, Circle II Circle.
BM: Oh really? That’s great.
ZS: It’s just gonna be a triple, you know, type production. So you’re gonna have your Circle II Circle, Savatage, traditional–I will let you in on that–we’re going a little more traditional stuff that I think of course, but looking in different areas, and keep it exciting. Because I’ve been out there and done the certain set of songs for a while, and now I’m just completely changing it up.
BM: What, are you going to come out and do an Elvis song or something? What do you mean by “traditional”?
ZS: No, no, just different Savatage stuff that I haven’t done in the past couple years, you know, my stuff. ‘Cause you’ve got five or six records.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: Yeah. So now I have the ability to really, you know, I’ve found so many, that I really have the opportunity to change it up and really go for a total different side of. You know what I’m saying? A different feel, like maybe I can concentrate a little more on Dead Winter Dead, which I hadn’t been doing. You know, ’cause I did The Wake of Magellan, on the last tour. But now I’m maybe gonna go back a little bit and maybe represent Handful of Rain, you know, and represent Dead Winter Dead a little bit, which should be interesting. You know, take you back to a different feel, because everybody who listened to that record, it had a different feel, a different mentality. You know, you put people somewhere, you take them somewhere. You know, that’s my goal now. I just wanna take people somewhere when they hear everything. Live, I wanna take you back to Dead Winter Dead, when you were studying the ethnic cleansing of the former Yugoslavia. No.
BM: Yeah, wow.
ZS: Lead by Paul O’Neill, to make sure you have all your points down. No.
BM: [laughs] He’ll come out with a blackboard.
ZS: The teacher. Oh, you know it! [laughs] “Now class, remember, hold those notes to your voice.” No, no.
BM: [laughs] Tell me about your Circle II Circle band on Burden of Truth. Dan, Global Artists, he told me, he raved about Paul Mitch Stuart. He said, “This guy is just stepping into the light and he’s the man.”
ZS: Yeah, he is. He’s just been really stepping it up at every turn. I mean, he’s just been a great team player, coming in when we need a little more here or there, you know, just helping us out everywhere. I mean, he plays bass, keyboards, he writes with me a lot, a lot of songs are written by me and Mitch. So, you know, he’s doing great. And we love him. He’ll go and play keyboards a little, and it’s good stuff. He’s got a great feel. He really is that, you know, he’s got the feel I like now, and it just gives us a little more versatility and stuff. I like that a lot. But you know, Andrew, you know, Andy Lee just playing some phenomenal. You know, we’ll have just a good song, a song that’s doing the job, and then I’ll say, “Andy, totally create something wholly new and take it to a new level, please.”
BM: And he does it.
ZS: And he says, “Ok, yes sir, how ’bout this?” Bam. “That’s it! You just took me somewhere!”
BM: [laughs] That’s fantastic.
ZS: He’s doing it, you know, when you hear these and stuff, you’ll hear a song that you’ll hopefully like, and then you’ll, all of a sudden that song will go up like two or three levels for you. I mean, he just did a great job. He created that mood where we got some mood places, and he just did a beautiful–almost like I’ll go through the record now–and you’d laugh if you listened to the record with me, ’cause I’ll name off the different bands that I told Andy to–
BM: Oh really?
ZS: [laughs] For different parts, right before the lead, I can cheat, and I can tell you what I told him to give me. You know, like I would say, “Give me some David Gilmour right here.”
BM: Wow.
ZS: Dude, you know, just a David Gilmour type feel. He’s got this sick blues thing, you know, he’s not even let us really tap into. He’s a scary blues player, but he’s doing a whole different side. So I would say “David Gilmour” and it was like all of a sudden, he made that real. And then I would go, “Now, in the same song, after you’ve done that David Gilmour thing, I want this next piece of solo stuff that kicks in here–’cause it might be a little interlude where we did David Gilmour–when it kicks in here, doing the solo, I need Ritchie Blackmore.”
BM: Oooh. That would be nice.
ZS: So then he would go, “Ok.” And then all of a sudden it’s like, “That’s exactly what he would have played if he came here today.” No, but you know, it was so funny because he really did copy, he really did put himself there. And we just joke around like that, you know? We’ll name a band or name a guitar player and tell him to think about what, just let that lead you. ‘Cause see, he still has to be the one who plays all our riffs, but if you can lead him somewhere mentally, he will naturally come out with a, you know, something great.
BM: You seem to have an awful lot of passion for music, which is great. I love how you phrase these things, “Taking you somewhere” and naming guitarists you wanted him to play like. What band really turns you on? I mean, from your youth, from now, when you listen to it, what is it that like, just flips all your switches?
ZS: Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve got traditional ones and I’ve got stuff that I’m just, you know, that I listen to now that’s blowing me away. The traditional stuff is like Rush, I think if you put on the right record. That’s always been something, that’s what my influence on drums was, you know, Neil Peart and all that.
BM: Holy cow, that’s quite an influence.
ZS: And so, yeah. Jump right in, please, just jump right in. [laughs] Yeah, “You’re going to fast, Zak, steady.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: But it’s incredible stuff. But you know, then I’ve got like Journey. Hey, I’ve gotta admit I like Journey’s junk. I was just like 13, I was 14, 15, whatever, you know, and he had great vocals going on.
BM: Oh, Steve Perry!
ZS: So I went, “Woah.” You know, [sings “Don’t Stop Believing”]. You know? I could never even, I could never, ever sing him, it was always a huge source of frustration.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: ‘Cause I’m no hack, but I don’t sing that high. I’m more of a–you know, he’s like an alto, as a man, which is unheard of. See, I’m more like a second tenor. [laughs] And momma played bass and daddy played tenor. No, my dad can’t sing, but my mom can. But you know, it wasn’t gonna happen. So as you go on and learn how to be a seasoned professional, you gotta fit, you gotta understand where you fit in. Don’t go chasin’ the stuff that’s gonna make you crack notes and be an idiot.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: Stay in your range and power ‘em down. And still develop and see if you can get a couple of octaves. You’re not gonna have three, not to many people have three, that’s just sick.
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
ZS: I knew one guy, there was one guy, he did have three plus octaves, this singer. I don’t even know if you remember him, it was, he was a black singer, and I can’t quite remember his name. It started out real low, but he could go from like, ground zero to way up in the stratosphere.
BM: What era, where is he from?
ZS: I can sing a little bit, see if you remember this. [sings]
BM: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.
ZS: [sings] Then he goes, [sings]. You know. And of course, the chorus is [sings], then he goes [sings]. You remember that one?
BM: [laughs] Yeah, I do.
ZS: Yeah. [Talking to his daughter] Hey, no, that’s onion powder. Don’t use onion powder. It should be seasoned salt. It’s a big, don’t put that on top, Cassidy. Thank you, honey. ‘Preciate it, hon. Enjoy your night. [Talking to neighbor] You’re gonna have a margarita? Hey, it sounds good now. My neighbor.
BM: Oh really?
ZS: Yeah. Sorry Bill.
BM: So you’re–
ZS: Hello?
BM: Yeah.
ZS: Sorry about that.
BM: Hey, no problem, that’s great. That’s, I love to hear that, ’cause I can tell you’re just really enthused about music, and that’s great. Tell me about Circle II Circle. How does it feel to you know? Does this feel like you guys have arrived? Is this the band you’ve always wanted to have, or what does this feel like to you to be able to put this kind of music together on Burden of Truth?
ZS: I don’t really think that we, we knew it was going to be a new challenge. You start the process, you go, “Here’s how we’re gonna do it this time.” And everybody will be like, “Oh wow, there’s pressure, pressure, pressure.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: But, you know what? I said, “Everybody just relax. You guys rock, just let it come out, ok?” And like Andy said–hey, I really wanna, I don’t wanna put all the emphasis on just those guys. I didn’t mention you know, Evan Christopher on rhythm and lead guitar, playing, doing a phenomenal job. And you know, we got drums back there, Tom [Drennan], just a great drummer and a good singer. You know, we got vocals all around too, so we’re three or four scenes going on at one time. That’s what we’re trying to do, get that vocal level up there, and everybody’s doing a great job. So you know, kudos to all of them. It has to be a team effort out there. You can’t just have half of everybody doing it. But everybody came to the party. But like you were saying, oh yeah, does it feel like it’s arrived? It’s, I think the fact that we just kind of relaxed, let it come out, let it be natural and they kind of know where we’re headed, ’cause this is the lineup for two records now.
BM: Yeah, it’s a great one.
ZS: So that’s good. And now they have that picture in their mind of where we’re going musically and stuff, so they were able to take it to that next level there. So now we’re all set, we’re pretty much self-contained. I think that we’re gonna be good, you know, for, and believe me, I want to write with Jon and Chris again. Hopefully we’ll get together soon and write some songs here and there on something coming up.
BM: Well, let me, I’ll let you get back to your evening there. Let me just ask you one more thing about ProgPower. Are there any bands that you’re personally looking forward to seeing in the lineup? After you guys play the Pre Party, are you going to stick around and watch some of the other bands?
ZS: Yeah.
BM: Who?
ZS: Absolutely! I watch all of them!
BM: Yeah, really?
ZS: I don’t care. I might not know every band on the bill. But I automatically stay, because that means I’m probably sipping on a little martini back there. [laughs] No, please. I’m not like I used to be.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: I don’t drink as much, which is good, my voice has improved, I’m doing good. But, really it’s a medical problem, ’cause I’ve got [Gastro] Esophageal Reflux Disease, which is tearing me up, ’cause it was giving me a thing back when I was recording Watching in Silence. I was complaining, ’cause it felt like I was singing for four hours, and it felt like I was singing for a week and I’m like, “Something’s wrong here.” Well what was going on was that acid reflux was causing this thing called LPR, Laryngeal Pharyngeal Reflux. It was turning my vocal cords pink, and they’re supposed to be white. It was burning them. They were pink.
BM: Oh god.
ZS: We went into the vocal studio, I was with a speech pathologist and everything, I didn’t want to mess around. I know exactly how to do a vocal workup, you have to get a referral, or you have to get a prescription from an ENT, ear doctor, whatever.
BM: Ear, nose and throat.
ZS: Otolaryngology. No. So then, but you know, doing it on this level, I don’t mess around. I’m kind of scientific about the voice too. I know all the medical doctors that handle everything and I’ve got my set, throat doctor and pcp, primary and all that stuff. But he sent me over to have that vocal workup with a speech pathologist where they put a camera on nothing but your vocal chords and they hold your tongue out with a piece of tissue and put a camera back there, and they go, “I’m gonna grab your tongue, and you just try to make noises I tell you to make.” And they tell you to go, “Aaah” and I go, “Eeeeh” you know? ‘Cause they’re pulling your tongue and your jaw down, you know? [laughs] So we got the pictures, and all of a sudden they had to change the medication, they had me on the wrong medication. They had me on an H2 blocker, which is like Zantec, and it should have been a protein pump inhibitor, which is Nexium.
BM: Yep.
ZS: And then I was on Prilosec, Prilosec is really the deal. Prilosec was the purple pill until they changed the formula. Because the patent runs out, and they go and change the formula a little bit so they can have a new patent.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: So now the purple pill became Nexium and it used to be Prilosec, and all of a sudden Prilosec goes over the counter and guess what, insurance doesn’t cover Prilosec anymore.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: You have to pay $180 for a bottle of what I was taking. For years. But guess what, it healed up everything. There was stuff in my duodenum, like some lesions and stuff that was causing stuff to shoot up, and it was gastritis, I had gastritis, esophogitus and esophageal reflux, three different diagnoses.
BM: Oh man.
ZS: So that was killing my vocal career. But I decided, hey, I’m making records again, I’m gonna go in, and guess what. Every year it’s gotten better, because the medication’s, we only had that one little stint of like five months where my primary made the wrong move. But the speech pathologist really straightened him up. She called him up and said, “What are you doing? He’s gotta have a PPI, man, protein pump inhibitor.” So he goes, “Ok, no problem.” My doctor’s one year younger than me, you know?
BM: [laughs]
ZS: Randy. Sometimes I just go, “See ya later, Randy.”
BM: Well, what–one question, then I swear I’m gonna let you go, ’cause you got a family there waiting.
ZS: No problem, no problem.
BM: ProgPower, what makes it such a success in your opinion? It’s known around the world, people love to play it, why is that you suppose?
ZS: I think it’s a great idea. I think it’s a niche that needs to be filled. You know, bring a little taste of Europe, bring that taste of Europe to the fine, fine tastes of Atlanta. And you know, let them sample. And he’s fulfilling a need. People want to see what’s going on, what’s hot in Europe right now, they might not get to travel over there, metal fans might not get to travel over there and go see these bands touring around. And I’m spoiled, ’cause usually when I’m on tour, I’m seeing a bunch of them. But if you’re out there, you’re out over there, you can do that. Glenn is just fulfilling the need that’s out there about wanting to check out what’s hot in Europe this year. Every year he’s going, “What’s’ hot in Europe this year.” I’m a metal fan. So that’s really the secret, I think, the magic. And I’m glad we can go do that and fulfill our need there.
BM: Yeah.
ZS: And we represent America. See, what we like is you know, you get all those European bands, and we always seem to be called in there. And we’re from Tampa, and I’m from South Carolina, and I’ve got family in Atlanta, so a lot of my cousins and aunts and uncles are showing up for that show.
BM: Oh, that’s great.
ZS: They’re already telling me. I’m already working on passes and stuff like that.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: They always come out. My cousin, Butch Walker, he got like producer of the year for alternative rock. [Rolling Stone Magazine 2005]
BM: Oh really?
ZS: Yeah, he’s produced so many things, that starting with Sevendust, and it just went on and on and on and on. And he’s do The Donnas and oh, Avril Lavigne, he produced.
BM: Really? Avril Lavigne?
ZS: So he’s out there, he’s an artist who’s a great guitar player and singer. But you know, it’s funny how he’s gotten to be known a lot more because he’s loaded.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: I mean, he’s getting royalties from everywhere, because everything he’s producing is at least going gold.
BM: Are you as much fun on the tour, like as you are seemingly all the time when I’m talking to you? I mean, do you have a favorite road story, like you guys go out and have an absolute blast? What’s your favorite road story?
ZS: [laughs] There’s a lot, there’s something that happens every week, you know. But over time you just kind of forget the whirlwind of activity. I mean, a few things stick out. Yeah, this is our personality, we have a lot of laughs and jokes out there. And I’m a ham, I’m a total ham, I’m out there being the comedian, challenging everyone to be funnier than me, and I wanna have a good time. They know immediately when I’m not in a good mood. ‘Cause I’m constantly, you know, the minute I get silent, [baby talk] “What’s wrong with little Zaky?”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: No. [laughs] ‘Cause you gotta coddle me. “Poor Zak.” You gotta pat me on the head. “Come play, don’t be in a bad mood.” The same thing I do with my kids. Anyway, but I think one story, when we were in South America, we were playing Sao Paulo, big old city in Brazil, you know, the biggest one. And we did the show and it was kind hot venue. You know, you had EMT guys with oxygen tanks bringing you when we came off stage. “We don’t have enough money for AC, we really it’s hot out here, have some oxygen. We’re gonna at least supply that, get in.” And so we get in that little bus they supply us, pretty cool big old bus, one of those touring busses. So we’re in there, I’m settling back in, I put the feet back as far as it will lounge, ’cause it’s one of those ones, you know the ones you have with lots of seats in it, it’s not like the custom coach where you have the bunks like we have to have. But this is just for when you’re doing four or five shows around town and you’re staying at a hotel, you just use the ones that are like touring busses. The have seats all in them so you just pick a seat and kind of lean back. And all of a sudden, I look to the left and there’s this person that looked kind of like he was gripping with all four monkey feet on the side of the bus. He’s looking in at me, he’s holding onto the side of the bus. A fan had climbed up on the bus and he’s looking at me through my window. And he’s way up on top, ’cause you know, geez, that’s kind of high up there. I’m like, “Wow” and immediately, from the way he was grabbing and just the way he was clasping the top and however he was gripping on, just my initial gut reaction was to go, “Chupacabra!”
BM: [laughing my ass off]
ZS: “It’s a Chupacabra!” ‘Cause you know, that’s famous in South America. It kills goats and supposed to be satanic or something in the Santeria religion.
BM: [laughs]
ZS: I don’t know why that came out, but now everybody, that’s the thing we remember the tour by, with the Chupacabra kid that jumped. Oh, and the bus driver now goes and does these semi donuts to get rid of the guy. He’s going down the road, he’s going left and right, the bus is leaning, he’s trying to shake the guy. The bus driver’s trying to shake the Chupacabra from the bus. So we’re going, “Woah, woah” and he’s going like a snake, you know? So he finally, the guy looses his grip and goes flying down the street. And we’re like, “D’oh! Sorry, Chupacabra.”
BM: [laughs]
ZS: He took a good spill though. I mean, he just, it was crazy thing. It was neat, like a stunt man. He was like a stunt man. He rolled good when he hit, he knew how to roll. That was one that sticks out.
BM: Yeah, I can imagine it would. [laughs]
ZS: The Chupacabra legend. But I, it was funny, ’cause I just kind of stood up and went, “Chupacabra!” [laughs] Everybody was like, “What the hell is he- oh, there is one.” No. [laughs, then sees something in his garage] Ooh, a giant beetle just crawled into my garage, about half the size of my foot.
BM: God, well that’s not–
ZS: That’s from Africa as well. These things must be from Africa. I’ve got to get rid of them.
BM: Well, you’re in Tampa, man. Everything’s bigger down there, the insects grow to dog size.
ZS: It’s huge, this is crazy. I’m looking at this beetle now, he’s gotta be two inches in circumference. No, I’m talking about diameter. He’s two inches in diameter. God.
BM: See, that’s why I live in Grand Rapids. The bugs don’t–
ZS: Yeah, no strange bugs.
BM: No, no. Zak I appreciate your time. It’s a pleasure to talk to you. It really is.
ZS: Thanks so much, Bill. ‘Preciate it. I had a great time.
BM: I’ll chat with you down there. See you in Atlanta.
ZS: Ok, cool. You edit as needed in order to take any stupidity away from me if I happened to have screwed up. And I appreciate that.
BM: No problem, Zak. Thank you so much.
ZS: Thanks, Bill. I’ll talk to you later, buddy.
BM: Take care, bye bye.
Wow. Easily one of my favorite interviews. Zak was on a roll. And I didn’t see the need to edit much. He was as eloquent as he was witty.
Circle II Circle CDs can be found just about anywhere. I got mine from LaserCD.com. (www.lasercd.com) Ken’s the man.
You could also visit www.circle2circle.com. Or www.savatage.com.
