Chris Caffery: “I’m a pretty intense person with a good heart”
I make no bones about the fact that I’m a big Chris Caffery fan.
On stage, as part of the awe-inspiring Trans-Siberian Orchestra (TSO), he’s a constantly-in-motion source of entertainment – cracking jokes, trading licks, and running from one side of the stage to the other – and, sometimes, from one end of the arena to the other. In Savatage, he’s a powerhouse, laying down riffs that are an air-guitar fan’s wet dream. As a solo artist, he’s intense, aggressive and philosophical. As a collaborator on some songs on the first two Circle II Circle CDs (a band lead by former Savatage vocalist Zak Stevens), he’s an artist whose presence is immediately noticed — and appreciated.
Chris and I connected via his page on MySpace (www.myspace.com/chriscaffery) and, after trading a few e-mails, I landed an interview with him. Granted, Chris isn’t appearing at ProgPowerUSA this fall, but what the hey? It’s Chris Caffery and I like him. Deal with it.
What I enjoyed most about my interview with Chris is his brutal honestly and openness. Conducted in mid June (not long after the release of his latest solo album, W.A.R.P.E.D.), this hour-long interview reveals a thoughtful, passionate, somewhat frustrated side of Chris Caffery that most fans never see — and most heavily-edited interviews don’t reveal.
This transcript is actually the second time I spoke to Chris on the phone. Our interview was schedule for 5:00 one weekend evening. However, when I called the number he gave me, I got an answering machine. So I hung up and futzed with my recording equipment because it didn’t appear to be working properly. A few seconds later, the phone rang. It was Chris calling me back. However, I noticed that my iPod still wasn’t recording. So when I answered I apologized for the delay, told Chris my recorder wasn’t working right, and asked if I could call him back. He agreed. I fixed the problem, checked to make sure I was recording, and dialed his number again.
Grab a cup of coffee (or your favorite barley pop). This is a long, fascinating interview.
CC: Hello?
BM: Hi Chris, problem solved. Thank you.
CC: [laughs] Alright.
BM: [laughs] Well, Chris, this is great. It’s quite an honor and a pleasure to talk to you. I appreciate it.
CC: Well, thank you. It’s great to hear that. That’s really cool of you to say.
BM: Well, yeah. You’re work in TSO, as I mentioned in my e-mail to you, is amazing. It’s just amazing. Grand Rapids. I don’t know what it is about Grand Rapids [Michigan], but you guys are worshipped here as gods [laughs].
CC: Yeah I know, it’s insane.
BM: Well, it’s good. It’s something we look forward to every year, that’s for sure.
CC: Yeah, I think we had the largest one-day total of people ever that TSO played for was in Grand Rapids.
BM: Yeah maybe it’s the long Michigan winters or something, but you guys strike a chord in this whole town. It’s amazing.
CC: Yeah, I think, you know what it was? I think it was that one time when there was the blizzard, and we made it through the blizzard to play. I think that kinda did it and then everybody started this. They had a soft spot for us.
BM: [laughs] Well, it’s a good combination of music though. Christmas in Grand Rapids. This is a real conservative town. You know, there are churches on every corner. So, it’s a good message for us anyway. [laughs]
CC: Yeah, exactly.
BM: Well, you know, congratulations on W.A.R.P.E.D. It’s an amazing, amazing album.
CC: Thank you! I really, I kind of kick myself in the head sometimes. You know what, when I signed my solo deal I was really excited because it was the first time I did anything on my own. And I had so much material and I wanted people to hear everything they could at first, and I think my biggest problem was a lot of my real metal songs were the ones that were about war, so I decided to put the bonus CD on Faces, that was the God Damn War thing, and I think I should—I put too much stuff on it, because a lot of people that went to get a hold of W.A.R.P.E.D. looked at it like it was just—
BM: Like a repeat of—
CC: Like a re-release of the bonus thing, which you know there was over 35, or close to 35 minutes of brand new material on it, and I think if I would have just had the bonus of the War thing be on Faces be like three or four tunes, then you know, W.A.R.P.E.D. came out and it was 14 songs. I think that it would’ve been received or looked at a lot differently for people as it was actually like a new CD, because I think a lot of people still go and buy Faces thinking that they can get what they’re going to get from W.A.R.P.E.D. on that, and it’s really not, because the whole thing comes together as a piece on the W.A.R.P.E.D. CD.
BM: Yeah, that’s…was it a matter of you were just too excited to have a lot of tunes out? Was that the reason why?
CC: I think so. You know, I was like a kid in a candy shop. “I got my own video on it!” [laughs] And I was like—’cause I never pay attention to what the business people tell me regardless if they’re right or not.
BM: [laughs]
CC: I’m just, like, you know “Trust me, it’ll be fine!” and even if it wasn’t, it’s like, “Well, what am I supposed to do,” you know? I’m an artist and I’m going to try to get as much of my music out as possible. And it’s okay, too, because in a lot of ways those two releases were really close to each other, so…
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: …my record company has had its problems with its distribution actually right now, there’s a lot of trouble with Black Lotus, so I mean, it’s one of these things where if W.A.R.P.E.D. was a completely separate release from Faces and it had a significant sales difference that was unexplainable to people like on the surface level, then maybe it would be like, “Oh, the second record didn’t sell that much.” Now it’s just like the second record’s just kind of being looked at like this little bonus thing—
BM: [laughs]
CC: — and with the problems that Black Lotus is having I’m not getting scrutinized too much on the activities of W.A.R.P.E.D. in retail. So right now as it stands, it’s like I’m not 100% sure if my new record’s going to be coming out on them or if it’s going to be a different label. They sent us a memo saying they’re either going to be bought out by somebody or they’re going to be closing.
BM: Oh man.
CC: Yeah, I’m currently speaking to other labels and I’m kind of preparing for just about any scenario. I mean, in one way or another things will be fine because I figure the record will either come out on Black Lotus and it’ll be stronger or more together than ever, or I’ll have a new home that’s going to be more stable than they are under than the current circumstances.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: So I’m not really concerned about it, it’s just the timing’s a little weird ’cause I’m in the studio and I’m trying to focus [laughs] on everything and you’ve got the business go up in the air. Typical, but…
BM: You know, I’ve heard that a lot. Distribution and labels seem to be the biggest hassles for musicians these days possible.
CC: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it’s just, everybody’s scared of losing their jobs and shelf space is tight because retail, there’s not as many stores and the downloads are killing the business. These kids are not–they’re not buying records. There’s just a few bands people buy for the most part, but people are trading or selling and you know, hopefully as time goes on and everybody’s in the digital world, people will start buying, you know, things off things like iTunes, and the immediate need to want to go and steal things isn’t going to be as big as it is.
BM: [laughs]
CC: You know, you get kids that go and they’ll get 100, 200 songs a month that they’re going to be trading from people, and that may be 10-20 records, and 10-20 records in the store–what the frickin’ stores start charging for CDs, you know, you’re looking at a couple hundred bucks a month at least to buy records, and people just don’t have that money right now.
BM: Yeah, I know it.
CC: You know? And the business…there’s too many bands. You’ve got all the new bands that are coming out. You’ve got all the ’80s bands that are still trying to re-release records and these new ones. You’ve got all the ’90s bands that are doing it. You know, you’ve got a ton of ’70s bands. It’s the same thing with concert tickets–you go in the summertime and everybody’s touring that’s been a band for the last 40 years.
BM: Yeah, that’s—
CC: You know what, in the ’70s, there was just the ’70s bands and they were hip and young. So everybody wants to see whoever was coming around. And these ’60s bands were broken up—there was no such thing as “retro” in the ’70s. It was just, like, whatever was going on.
BM: [laughs]
CC: And in the ’80s it was pretty much the same thing. You had only the ’80s bands and none of the ’70s bands were really happening yet. I don’t even think it was till like the early ’90s that retro started to become something that was cool. Maybe the late ’80s, like, you know when KISS put their makeup back on, or came out and took the makeup off for Lick it Up it was just like, you know. Then they came back out for the first time with the makeup on.
BM: [laughs]
CC: And the summer tour started happening, and you’ve got the packaged tours with, like you know, like whatever, just for example, say like The Outlaws and Lynyrd Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet did the Southern tour, and you had the this-guy that-guy that-guy tour, and The Rock Never Stops started and this and that, and it became cool to be retro. But you’ve got so many people tying to get your money and then the ticket prices have gone up over 100 bucks a concert, so I just don’t know how—
BM: [laughs]
CC: –how people can expect to get everybody to go to all these shows.
BM: Well you know, this is a two-edged sword and I agree with you. My first concert was KISS in 1975 and I think it was a $5 ticket.
CC: Yep.
BM: And now you’re right, I pay, well, for example, TSO. I’d think nothing of dropping $150 on a bunch of tickets to that. I think it’s people are becoming more selective. They have to pick and choose a lot more carefully.
CC: Yeah—it’s—but that’s—that’s rough too, because you—you have a lot of new bands that it’s impossible to develop, because they really can’t tour on their own. You’ve got people that are looking for marquee gigs. And I think there’s an extreme hole in the midsize venues. You’ve got clubs, and you’ve got arenas. And there used to be a huge marketplace for things in between. I don’t think there’s a lot of midsize bands anymore, and the ones that are playing midsize venues are like multi-platinum acts that just can’t sell out arenas.
BM: That’s, you know, it’s interesting that you said that, because that’s the problem with Grand Rapids. We have some great clubs and then we’ve got Van Andel Arena. The enormodome. You know, there’s nothing in between.
CC: Yup, exactly.
BM: Well, the two-edged sword part of this is, on one hand, people have some of the best choices for music than ever before. There’s more music now to choose than they’ve ever had. So it’s—
CC: Yeah, I agree.
BM: It’s a smorgasbord for fans. But — [laughs] — like you said, then artists such as yourself and the labels are struggling. So, it’s only going to be good for the fans for a while, then everybody goes toes up, and then what?
CC: You’d be amazed if you saw what a lot of labels are giving bands to record records nowadays. It’s insanity. But I mean, a lot of bands are selling, you know, not even 1/10 of what they used to sell. They’re selling like one, like you know, like 1/100 of what they used to sell records-wise.
BM: Are you saying the labels are giving them a lot or a little?
CC: Veeeerry little.
BM: Really? Yeah.
CC: Yeah, the whole business, nobody’s working on, like, advances anymore. Everybody’s working on reality base. It’s like the floor label would get really excited and say like I think you’re going to be huge, here’s a half million dollars to do a record. Now a label’s like, well, you know, “We’ll give you five, ten grand. Make your record. And if you sell, then you’ll make the money from selling it.”
BM: [laughs]
CC: That’s the way they look. And they look at a band like, you know, they look at a band and they say, well, “Your last record did X amount of records. This record, we’re going to give you a dollar and a quarter based on that for each record you sold off of that, we’re going to give you a buck and a quarter. Which is your basic, you know, publishing, we have to pay out to you in sales.”
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: “And then if you recoup that, then you can make more based off your deal. But this is what we’re going to give you in advance. This is what you sold on your last album, this is what it’ll take to sell on this record, and we’re basically going at it like, you know, we can break even with promotion on what you sold last time by giving you this.” They’re not looking at them saying, well, you know, this next record’s better, so it’ll probably sell twice as much or could sell ten times as much. They’re not looking at that, they’re looking at, you know, what this is what we know you’ll do, this is what we know we’ll make money on.
BM: Well, you know that “we know” stuff, you know where that comes from, don’t you? It’s the music industry having a bunch of MBAs in there, you know, counting numbers. You’re not, they’re not interested in artist development, it’s the bottom line, that’s what they’re after.
CC: Oh yeah. Absolutely. There is no more artist development.
BM: That’s, you know, I’m glad you’re telling me all this stuff, because this is—I’ve heard this before. I’ve talked to guys in King Crimson — you know, the old ‘70s bands you’re talking about — John Wetton, for instance. Or even Mick Box from Uriah Heep. I’ve talked to ‘em and they said the same thing. When they started, labels signed bands for multi-album deals, like two, three, four, five albums, because they considered it in an investment in a family sort of thing. Now—
CC: Yeah.
BM: Now you’re absolutely right. You’re lucky to get anything.
CC: Yep. The labels are kind of like, you know, “If you don’t do anything on this record or the next record, you’re probably not going to be around anyways so what do we have to worry?” They’re not thinking like that.
BM: [laughs]
CC: Half the people are worried the label’s going to shut down and they’re gonna lose their jobs, so they’re trying to at least show the label they’ll make their money, cause they don’t want to be the one that gets fired, they want them to be the guy that’s like, “Joe was making the record company money, we can’t let him go.”
BM: [laughs]
CC: General fear. As the price of gas goes up, the price of touring goes up, you know, and everybody else is trying to pay their bills. So you’ve got, like, roadies and other things that need and want to try and make more money to get the rising cost of living, but the price of touring’s going up so bands want to try to cut down the money they’re paying people, it’s just, it’s a really bad, bad time…I’m fortunate to have TSO because, like, that thing is at least a solid steady thing and we’re all lucky enough to know that every year we’ve got something that’s beneficial for us. And TSO gives everybody a really reasonable ticket price for what we bring out for a show.
BM: Oh yeah. I’m amazed.
CC: But if you had any idea how much TSO costs, when we’re on the road…I mean if somebody really wanted to be a frickin’ shyster, they could cut TSO’s production. Even if you cut it in half you would still have a huge show, and you could double TSO’s ticket price. So you literally could quadruple your profits and still do the business that you’re doing with TSO—if you really wanted to. But that’s not—Paul [O’Neill] refuses to do that to people, and I think that’s another reason why TSO’s embraced that way, because we give everybody a show that, you know, could cost $200 a ticket for a bad seat. But we give ‘em that [caliber of show] for 40 bucks.
BM: I think what comes across with TSO — Paul, you, everybody on stage — is that you guys look like you’re having fun, like you’re doing it from the heart, like it’s something you really love. It’s not just a gig to you where you’re making money. That’s how it comes across to the audience.
CC: [pauses] Yeah, that’s absolutely it, I mean everybody, you know, they’re great musicians. Everybody’s really humble. I think, too, like Paul doesn’t—he can get whoever he wants to be part of the thing, so live tours especially, you know, we split, we need extra musicians for two [separate coastal tours], and some people don’t do every tour, and we give the opportunities to unknowns and people that really, really, really appreciate it a lot of times, instead of going out and catering to the people that have had their butts kissed their whole career, you know. It’s like, he could get that. He could get superstars all over the stage in TSO. But I think that would create a different kind of an air for it. I mean, where it’s like–
BM: Oh yeah.
CC: Now you’re having people who have a chance to go out and establish their own thing. And I think from there you feel more a part of what’s going on instead of, you know, if you had Joe Shmoe that was, you know, in a band that sold 10 million records and he comes in all of the sudden and he’s like, well, “You know who I am?” It’s like, you know, personally, I don’t care who you are. That’s not the vibe that people want with TSO. You get a bunch of people that are just, you know, happy to see each other every year, we’re happy to go on the road together, it’s Christmas time, it’s like you’re away from your family so the band becomes your family.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And I think that every night that you get on stage, you’re able to see all the people and all their families are together, and you talk to them and they hear how important it is for us to come around and play for them. It’s just, it’s a different kind of a thing, there’s no attitude involved with it. It is what it is. And it’s going to be funny because you’re going to watch a lot of people who I know for a fact that are starting to see what it is that TSO did and they think that it’s an easy thing to do, we’re going to start seeing the attack of the clones, as I’m calling it.
BM: [laughs]
CC: Like Star Wars. We’re going to see the next couple of years, watch, there’ll be like two or three every year that will be trying to do exactly what we did at Christmas time. And I don’t think they’re going to get it, because TSO took a tremendous investment of money to get where things were. I mean, we were losing money, Paul was losing money on the first few tours just because he wanted to have this huge production out there, and he was like “No, trust me, it’s going to—it’s going to be big, because nobody’s doing this,” and in time it paid off. And I just think a lot of people are going to see what it is that we did and think it’s just going to be something they can instantly do, or anybody can throw a Christmas band out there, a rock band with an orchestra, and people are going to flock on because it’s a competition-less market and it’s not the truth. TSO, we’ve established something that’s really special, and it’s a formula and a thing that’s magical to people and it’s like, you know, God bless anybody who’s going to try to jump into the market. I wish them all the best, but I just think that some of these people think it’s going to be a lot easier than it really is.
BM: [laughs]
CC: And it’s been 10 years of TSO already. It’s not an overnight sensation.
BM: Well, the word you used, magical, is what it is—it is what TSO is to me. I teach at a local university sometimes, and I use TSO as an example of how to do things right–
CC: [laughs]
BM: My class is in marketing and advertising, and I always go for the passion, do things that are magical, be spectacular. TSO is the example I use. You can’t duplicate magic. It’s not possible. So these other bands that come up, they’re not going to have the same feel to them. You’re absolutely right.
CC: Yeah.
BM: Yep. [pauses] Tell me about W.A.R.P.E.D. a second. What kind of mind space were you in when you were creating this album? Because it is very intense and very dark and aggressive. How did you get into that mindset?
CC: Imagine this. I live in New York City. So 9/11 happens. From my house I smell the buildings burning, you know? You see the cloud of smoke. You’re living in the middle of that. “Erase” was the first song that I wrote that—after 9/11, about that, and it’s just one of these things and as time went on, the news was primarily the war.
BM: Uh-huh.
CC: You know, Bush and Bush’s push for the war, and trying to get support, and then the protests all around the world, that’s where songs like “I” were written from me seeing, you know, people trying to push the war, people trying to fight for the war, people trying to question whether or not the war should happen. You know, you just saw all these different things happening and the news, you know, we went into Afghanistan and, you know, attacked and that’s where I was writing “there’s a darkness about.” Still, once we went in there and used all that force in Afghanistan, Iraq was still willing, Hussein was still willing, to put up a fight against—
BM: Oh yeah.
CC: — Bush, he said he was going in and it’s kind of like, you know, you just, you questioned everything that was going on. I live in a very European community in New York City. I would watch Greek satellite TV with my neighbors, and they would be explaining to me, you know, things that they see in the news that nobody showed on CNN. Like all of the Halliburton stuff and all the stuff that Michael Moore was putting into his movie, all these things, all these unanswered questions that were put in the forefront of European communities, news showing that this war was not what it was. And if you look at what was going on with the Iraq war, the original push for that war was completely, 100%, regardless of what Bush tries to say right now, was completely we were looking for weapons of mass destruction. It was completely that.
BM: Sure.
CC: Then we went in and we couldn’t find any. So all the sudden, it’s like, well, you know, we had to get rid of Saddam Hussein because he’s a bad man. He had all these direct ties with the al-Qaeda, which, you know–there’s no way in hell somebody somewhere that is in the Middle East that’s of power is not going to have contact or ties with somebody in the al-Qaeda, because they’re everywhere.
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
CC: You know, if you wanted to go after somebody who’s just directly tied with al-Qaeda, how come we didn’t bomb Saudi Arabia? Why, because they have how many billions of dollars in our banks in America? If we screwed up frickin’ Saudi Arabia we would have froze Citibank. It’s like all these things that would have happened by that. So then all the sudden it’s, like, okay. So why did we really go into Iraq? And then all the sudden the definition, and the only reason why we’re there, is we’ve got to stop terrorists and free Iraq. Well the Iraqi people are miserable since we started the war. They have way less frickin’ of an economy, they have no clean water, they’ve got frickin’ tons of the cities are out of electricity, there’s frickin’ roadside bombs and bombs in mosques and thousands of people dying on a frickin’ monthly basis. It’s, like, is Iraq really better off since we went in? It’s, like, right now they’re not. Will they be better off 20 years down the road? It’s, like, I can’t tell that right now, but was it worth anybody’s lives? Iraqi, American, coalition — whatever. Terrorists. Was it worth anyone’s lives and hundreds of billions of dollars to figure this out? That’s where the W.A.R.P.E.D. record is. It’s just questioning. It’s, like, is this worth it?
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: Look at the past when we used mass force and war and like you look at what happened with World War II, and United States’ involvement in that. I mean, we stopped some seriously evil people and societies and governments and things from getting control of the world and I think we definitely made a huge difference. With this one it’s, like, you know, we have a hurricane that hits our United States. And you can’t even send relief help to people, but we could send hundreds of billions of dollars and give lives to a country where–they don’t like us! They don’t like us. You know, if your neighbor was like screwing your wife — for lack of a better way to put it — are you going to go paint his house?
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
CC: And that’s how I look at this war. Regardless of whether or not Hussein was a bad man, and the earth’s going to be a better place without him in power, is it worth it? Because in the end, war is going to become so technical and the weapons are going to become so powerful that the only way you can win a war is by mass, mass destruction.
BM: Well, you can—
CC: Not—well, or just complete intimidation. And we showed that conventional warfare is not intimidating. We went in there with these, you know, concussion bombs, and missile strikes, and this and that, and we’re going to shock and awe. Didn’t fuckin’ shock anybody. And awe, it was awful. You know, it’s like, you want to shock and awe, we’re blowing the frickin’ country up, just like it happened in World War II. And then go, “This is shock and awe. Who’s next?” When 9/11 happened on 9/12, as soon as you know who did it, who faulted you, you blow ‘em up. You want to do the right thing that would have been supported worldwide and globally to tell the terrorists, Look, this is who funded it, this is what’s going on and we’re going to go down and clean everything up. And if you don’t cooperate, the whole “with us or against us” thing should have been like, “This is what’s going to happen if you’re against us.” Not. “We’re going to go in there and blow up a bunch of frickin’ things and totally screw up your government and then try to figure out how to make things good for the next 15 years.” That’s not shock and awe, that’s a complete—in my mind, the Iraq war was just completely unnecessary. I just don’t—
BM; Yeah I agree, there’s—
CC: I just don’t see what it accomplished.
BM: There’s a lot you’re saying I agree with. The only difference would be, you’re right about World War II. That bomb in Hiroshima pretty much settled that. But who in this day and age is going to allow that sort of shock and awe?
CC: Nobody. My whole point with that is, it’s like, if you can’t use that, then you have to like—you have to zero in on your terrorists, you have to freeze the funding, which like I said, do we go, or do we have the balls, anybody have the balls to go into Saudi Arabia and tell them what to do? We have the balls to sit there and tell Iran to stop using their frickin’ nuclear stuff or we’re going to bomb ‘em. Why don’t we touch Saudi Arabia? Because it would financially freeze the country. And it all comes down to the fact that war is a business. And it’s really a difficult thing because it’s human lives. And you have mass media and everybody knows everything that happens instantly. And it’s really difficult, I mean, it’s hard, in some ways you’ve got to feel for what Bush is going through because he has to dance. You have to strategically bomb bad people that are hiding right next door to good people.
BM: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say: it’s a different enemy now.
CC: And, you can’t kill a bad guy without wounding a few of the nice guys. And it’s real difficult—
BM: [laughs]
CC: — thing to do, because if the bad guy just happens to be down the street at the bakery, you kill the nice guy and the bad guy wasn’t there, and then you’re a complete asshole, it’s like, well, it’s difficult. War has become really, really, really difficult. And, I don’t know…[sighs]…like I said, I just, I look at it and I see all the things that have happened to America, and you know, house prices have went up like 150%, 200%, and gas prices have went up like 300% in some places. On 9/10/2001 I got regular unleaded for $1.08 a gallon. Now, regular unleaded is $3.30 in New York City. It’s, like, why is that? You know why: because we were so diverted away from that by the war, and so paranoid about terrorism that we let the price double with the blink of an eye. Then people kept driving! We didn’t say, you know, screw this. We kept driving. We actually drove more. We bought bigger vehicles and drove more and used more. So then the oil companies are like, you know, “Let’s try a little experiment, let’s—
BM: [laughs]
CC: –let’s go up to $2.75 and see what happens.” Pushed it up to $2.75 and everybody still drove. And then they shot it back down to, like, $1.86, $1.90. They’re, like, all right, so now let’s get people feelin’ really good about spending like $2 a gallon. Like $2 a gallon is a complete deal now. We’ve already fucked their heads up, it’s twice as expensive as it was two years ago, but they’ll feel good about it. All right, so now what? All right, we’ve got a hurricane, we’ve got the frickin’ war, we’ve got, we’ve got the Iran paranoia, so it’s like, you know what, let’s try this. Let’s shoot gas up to close to $4 a gallon and see what people do. We kept driving! The man was tired. So it’s now, it’s like, all right, blow it back down to about $2.25, and everybody’s going to feel, you know, $2.50, everybody’s going to feel good about paying $2.50 a gallon. Now $2.50 is a bargain. Then they raise gas up to $3, and you’re excited. I’m excited if I buy gas for below $2.70.
BM: [laughs] Well—
CC: You know, it’s a frickin’ mental game, and I don’t know anybody that’s makin’ three times the money they made three years ago.
BM: No, definitely not.
CC: And it starts a chain reaction. It’s starting to affect everything. It’s affecting building materials, it’s affecting, you know, the price of, government’s raising, the price of milk has went up…everything’s going up, rents are going up because everybody that’s buying gas is going to try every way possible to nickel and dime whoever they can to get extra money.
BM: Mm-hmm. Well, what is the solution? Cause I hear ya and I agree with you. But is—are we—
CC: Well, I think, the solution? Really? [laughs] The solution is we’re a democracy. If everything is this bad, the United States should have stood up and made a difference in the elections a few years back. Not that we really had that great of choices. But, you saw what you were getting, you knew what you had. And it was one of those things where maybe it would have been more if the country had tried to make a change with that. And I think, like, you know, during the years where Clinton was in, and his first four years weren’t magical, and you’ve got the second term and you started to turn things around, you know. Bush is into this second year of his second term. This is when things are usually, if a President’s going to prove that, you know, a four year period’s too little to do something, the second year of the second term is when you really start to see things turn around. And he’s got the lowest approval ever right now. I don’t see anything turning around. I walk down the streets and all’s I do is hear people violently cursing out the country. And it’s depressing to me. I love America.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: That’s why people go, “Well, you’ve got like a heavy anti this and that stance on the record.” Well, no I don’t. I have a stance on my record that going, “What is going on and why?” And, “Tell me why this needs to happen?” And the funny thing is, this record became kind of prophetical because at the end I tacked on a sound effect before that “Beat Me” [”Beat Me, You’ll Never Beat Me”] song that’s about like the planet turning around and smacking humanity in the face. And the sound effect was that of a tidal wave. And the W.A.R.P.E.D. record was in the stores or God Damn War as a bonus on Faces in October of 2004. In December of 2004 the tsunami hit.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And hundreds of thousands of people were, you know, killed in a matter of seconds. And it was like, it was really weird, I saw that, I was just like, this was something that happened and it was on the record. And it was out before it happened. And I think people need to pay attention to people a little bit more. And I think that we have a lot of problems in this country. What you saw in New Orleans, if you flooded any major city in the United States, you would see that. We’re hiding that everywhere. We’re hiding that poverty level. We’re hiding that, that lack of community support. We’re hiding that everywhere in America and I think New Orleans should have been a wake-up call that we need to take care of ourselves a hell of a lot more than we need to take care of the poor person in Iraq. Not that those poor people in Iraq don’t deserve help. But they should be able to help themselves. We have, you know, millions of people in this country that don’t have any help.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And it’s sad. And I think, it’s like, we’re not the United States of the world.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: We’re the United States of America and we don’t take care of the United States of America. We’re losing how much money to foreign business? We don’t make anything in this country anymore. We’re making billions of dollars for all these other countries, and you know, the money that’s coming in from China, from India, from Indonesia, from Korea, all these products that are made in these countries that we sell here, we don’t make here. It’s like, it’s just really weird. This country could be so brilliant, exactly what it set out to be, if this country would just take care of itself.
BM: Well, here’s the deal, though, Chris, it’s not that I disagree with you. It’s that you provided the reason when you were telling me about the gas prices. This country is made up of people who are very self-centered. You’re not going to get the kind of care you’re looking for from the government, because they can’t make a decision to save their souls. But the people in this country I think are so downtrodden and sort of negative, they don’t care either anymore.
CC: Oh, exactly. When I say this country I don’t mean the government. I mean this country.
BM: Sure, the people in it.
CC: The United States as a whole needs to take care of the United States as a whole. You know. If we really cared that much we would, everybody would bond together and step up and say, you know, “We’ve got to make a difference.” And nobody does that.
BM: And tell me why. Why is that?
CC: [long pause] Credit? [laughs] You know, it’s like people can get something for nothing.
BM: Sure.
CC: If this was, you know, 1930 and there was no credit cards, and you couldn’t sit there and run up 50, 60 grand in credit, or run to the bank for a mortgage or a loan, or you know, daddy and mommy weren’t dying and leaving you a house that they got for 70 grand that’s worth 550 [grand] now, it’s like—
BM: [laughs]
CC: I think a lot of people are just getting…you know, a generation that’s getting a lot of something for nothing, and you’ve got people that are living on credit and not existing on reality, and it’s weird. I think there was a lot of fantasy jobs where people were making tons of money not doing difficult labor, you know, computers came in and you know, people were programming and pushing buttons and selling products and scamming people online, and how many times do you look at a credit card statement and you’ve got a 12 cent charge that shows up that you didn’t even notice, and you look back on five bills and think, Wait a second. I didn’t make this 12 cent charge for the last five months.” Imagine. You charge just 12 cents to 12 million people and…
BM: [laughs]
CC: …you know what happens and in 10 months, you don’t know who they are, they’ve disappeared. It’s weird. It’s a strange time.
BM: You sound a lot like me sometimes. I’ll have these conversations with my wife and get all depressed. I don’t see any way out of it. And there are many people you could listen to on the radio — especially the conservative talk show hosts, let’s say Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, whomever — who’ll tell you that what we’re seeing is the beginning of the end, or at least the middle of the end, perhaps. There’s no way to pull out unless something drastic happens.
CC: Absolutely.
BM: [laughs] But that’s depressing, though. I mean, So what do you do? Do you just kind of stockpile a bunch of rations and, you know, build a little moat and wait for the end? I mean, what happens?
CC: [laughs] I don’t know. I really don’t know. I’m like, I’m scared to put money into anything other than like a, you know, a box in your room.
BM: [laughs]
CC: Because it’s like you go in and every year you try to do the right thing with like, getting an IRA. You build towards your retirement fund, in a bank, people tell you well look, you know, “You’re young, the market’s going to get better.” And they convince you to go get some mutual funds or market funds, and say you know, “The interest rate’s going to go up everything’s going to be fine” and its’ like the interest rates are back up, they’re up to 5% now, for these things. And I just got statements in the mail again, and everything went down again.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And I’m going, “This is really screwed up! You guys are telling me that when interest rates get back to five percent it’s never going to go down. It’s back to five percent, it’s still going down!”
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And it’s a scary thing, because it’s, like, I’m afraid to put money anywhere. And the only thing you can invest in is land and property and it’s, like—
BM: Not even that, because now the government can take that away. [laughs]
CC: Yeah, that and not only that. You have so many people that after 9/11, when the interest rates went down below five percent for a mortgage, they went in and bought houses on non-fixed rates, and they, you know, they took out these second mortgages to get this and that, and the prices just kept going up and up and up and up, and people are sitting there going “Oh I’m getting a $500,000 house but my mortgage is only 3%.” It’s, like, dude that house was $200,000 three years ago. You’re not getting a deal! It’s like, you just paid 300 grand in interest to some frickin’ jackass that was selling this house that happened to hop in on this mortgage. You were dumb enough to buy something that was worth $200,000 for $500,000. You didn’t get a deal by getting a low interest rate! Instead of giving the bank the mortgage money you gave somebody else the money.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And I just think that…it’s weird, people—you know. [pause] People made some really bad decisions in this country. And you can’t really do, like you said, you can’t make anything change right now without making a drastic difference. I think, personally, I think there should be one day a week where every single person in our country, picks a day a week and doesn’t drive.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: Take public trans, whatever you gotta do, just pick a day a week, each person, and don’t operate your automobile. Not, “We’ll try it once a month, or try it once.” No. Every single person should go, “You know what? I ain’t driving.” And really just start stabbing these frickin’ pricks in the oil companies.
BM: [laughs]
CC: These guys are making more money than ever. We’re getting raped. It’s supply and demand. And the demand is there, the supply is there, and we’re not stopping to use it. India and China are using tons of it. They’re not stopping to use it, and it’s like, we’re getting completely raped by this. And it’s, like, why does natural gas have to go up because oil is? It doesn’t cost any more for natural gas. Everybody’s just raising everything around us. It’s so ridiculous. I think we should just frickin’ start usin’ ethanol. You know, take back our farmland and make our own fuel, use the oil we have here and just start to, like, have the United States be a little bit self sufficient already. You know?
BM: You sound extremely common sense and intelligent about all this. I mean, are you finding other people of like mind that you connect with? [pauses] Or are you a voice in the wilderness?
CC: Yeah, but the problem is, though? You’ve got a lot of people of like mind that you can connect with, but you don’t have unity amongst action. You have unity amongst opinion.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: You can’t operate, you can’t make a change on opinions. You know? You could talk as much as you want down at the local coffee shop, or local bar, the mall, whatever. But until people unify through action, it’s just going to be hearsay. And it’s a tough thing, because I don’t want to be a political performer. I don’t want to do that. I was watching the news and I wrote some songs…I had some songs about the war, it just made sense for me to finish the record. I don’t want to be known as a political performer. My new record doesn’t have it in it. It’s like, you know, I’ve stated my case, I think I’ve left a decent little piece of history in music for people to listen to, and I think 10 years down the road that record’s still going to hold up as far as what it’s saying. I don’t see the message changing. I mean, look at the song “War Pigs.” Ozzy Osbourne and Geezer Butler and those lyrics. They were saying what I said 38 years ago. Exactly, exactly what I said then. And that hasn’t changed and I don’t think it will change.
BM: Well, your album, as you mentioned to me in your e-mail reply, it raises questions. Asks what’s right, what’s wrong. But what if you provided answers? Instead of asking the questions, what if you created an album that said, “Here’s what you guys outta do.” Or “Here’s what I think outta happen.”
CC: [pauses] Um…
BM: Because there’s nothing wrong with what you’ve created, don’t get me wrong—
CC: Like I said, then that makes you—it really makes you a political artist, where you’re saying let’s do this, let’s take [action]…and it’s like, I might as well run for office. You know? [laughs]
BM: You should! [laughs] ‘Cause you’ve got a lot of great ideas. But you just said it. What you did is you just provided [on you album] a bunch of opinions. And you just said there’s no way to change anything through opinions. What if you took action and said, “Here’s what should happen.” And rallied people around that? ‘Cause you have a great platform. People listen to you all around the world.
CC: [pause] Well, you know, I think I’ll have to see a little bit more what happens with things. I think, you know, like I said—
BM: –and I’m not criticizing you by the way.
CC: Well I think if more people actually took the time to listen to what I have to say with W.A.R.P.E.D. that I would have maybe considered something a little bit more like that. But the the fact that people turned around and just like, you know, a lot of people wouldn’t even give it the time of day because they felt like they weren’t even getting their bang for their buck on it when I gave ‘em, you know—
BM: [laughs]
CC: — I think it’s 130 minutes of music with Faces or something retarded like that. And all I did was try to sell a record that had 40 minutes of new music, and I looked at like Blizzard of Ozz which is like eight songs and the old Van Halen records which are frickin’ six, seven songs and some covers, and people were buying that as a whole new record. I gave the same amount of music and new artwork and a new cover and put it all together and people were saying it was something I was trying to take advantage of people financially, and I was just like, I was kind of burned by that, you know? I got really disheartened because I put so much into it and I gave so much back for nothing. It’s like—
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: You know, I spent anything that would have made profit on Faces recording the W.A.R.P.E.D. material. You know, and when I finished the additional W.A.R.P.E.D. material, it’s like I basically paid for that myself, you know, and I put it all out and I don’t make money on this stuff right now. It’s just kind of, with me being somebody who likes to give things back more than anybody, I was kind of burned by that whole thing. In order for me to take action, I would really like to see things be embraced a little bit differently and maybe people would appreciate what it was I was trying to do. Because I’m not going to beat my head against the wall for no reason.
BM: Well it’s, yeah, I can understand that. And I know how you’d feel given those circumstances. The only thing I would say — and this is strictly my opinion, it doesn’t amount to much of anything at all — but if you’re seeing people in the world and this country for example really depressed, or really feeling downtrodden, or like their voices don’t matter, and they listen to W.A.R.P.E.D., it’s possible that that would make them feel even worse just because they’re going to agree with you. They’re going to say, “Man, this place is fricked up. Man, we’re screwed.” But then what’re they going to do?
CC: [pause] Yeah.
BM: It’s just an opinion, as we’re talking, I’m formulating in my mind.
CC: Mm-hmm.
BM: What can they do? You know?
CC: Well, there was, I mean, this is a ton of what was on W.A.R.P.E.D. It was just factual too. I mean there was a lot of, kind of just like, some of the stuff is almost news report like. You know, it was just what was going on.
BM: There’s a—
CC: You know, and to be news report, you have two or three different sides of the news. It was just all in there. It was all like, our side, their side, the people sitting on the fence’s side, and then I just presented a lot of questions, and in the end it wraps up with “Curtains” sayin, “Who really knows?” Do I, I mean, for what you know right now, I’m not saying it’s happening, but for all you know right now, somebody, a political leader of Country A could be on the phone with terrorists in the foxhole going, “All right, we’re gonna do this next, you just sign there and”—you know? You don’t know, we don’t know any of this. And regardless of what anybody says in speculation, regardless of what I say, regardless of what I see on TV and hear on TV, it’s like, I—I, as silly as it sounds, I really got, like, my opinion, and the way I think of government figures cemented by Bill Clinton. And people consider him to be like this great, amazing president. The fact that people say that regardless of what the situation was with him and his wife, that guy sat there on national TV, looked in everybody’s faces—
BM: I know—
CC: “I did not have sexual contact with that woman.” And this is the President of the United States! Regardless of what the situation was, this was our leader, our President, our George Washington, 1996. It’s like, this was that guy. And he was lying right to your face. From that point on in, because there’s obviously advisors and people telling him this is what he should say—
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: He didn’t just walk up there and decide that himself. People said, “You know what, let’s just say this, we’re going to get rid of this bitch, its going to be no big deal, we’ll move on.” And from there, I was just like, you know what, I don’t believe anybody.
BM: Yeah.
CC: No one. I don’t believe anyone. And it’s just—
BM: There’s people who think Clinton was great, though. They just say it doesn’t matter if he lied. He was a great President.
CC: Yeah, exactly.
BM: I think the way you do. Because I think, look, if this guy’s going to lie that badly, what else is he doing? You know?
CC: Exactly. Exactly. What, I mean—
BM: But doesn’t it come down to, then, if all we have is each other, shouldn’t the message be — and not your message in your album but in general to people — shouldn’t we just kind of stick together? I mean, shouldn’t—
CC: Exactly. Exactly. And it kind of like, it goes down to what you consider things that are good and bad because everyone says that George Bush is somebody just out for money. It’s like, well, money is a thing of Greed, which is a sin and, essentially, one of your Seven Deadly Sins. And so is—sex is like, Gluttony, and Bill Clinton, his love for getting his nut off was—
BM: [laughs]
CC: –was no different than the Bush government’s love for, its apparent love for, mass money.
BM: [laughs]
CC: It’s just Gluttony, you know? So if they’re lying about money, [Clinton] is lying about sex, it’s the same thing to me. It’s human nature, and it’s the Seven Deadly Sins. It’s Gluttony. It’s Lying. It’s everything. And then everybody throws the God thing in. And it’s, like, you know, that bothers me too. And that’s why I mentioned that too, the whole use of the religious thing, and you know, God’s declaring war on the United States, God bless America, this whole thing is just like, you know what?
BM: Is—is religion a personal thing to you? Because you seem to have quite a heart, you seem a guy with an awful lot of heart.
CC: It’s difficult because the Catholic Church in the hometown where I grew up, the priests were arrested for running an underground sex club. So it’s kind of like, well but that’s another thing too. It’s lying about sex. It’s so bad for the priests to be doing what they’re doing, but, you know…there’s Bill Clinton!
BM: [laughs] Yeah.
CC: And you’ve got—it’s just [loud sigh, pause] I don’t know.
BM: Yeah, I know, I agree with you.
CC: I just think human beings have been doing what we’re doing now forever. It’s just modern technology, cell phones, recorded conversations, e-mails, DNA testing, all this, you’re going to get caught. And were just finding out that everybody’s full of shit.
BM: [laughs]
CC: [laughs] It’s like, it’s been going on forever. It’s been going on forever. You know? We’re a weird, selfish, self-destructive type of being. Like I said, the only people on the planet that will kill other people for any other reason than survival.
BM: Mm-hmm.
CC: And it’s—
BM: Well, then there’s not much hope, is there? If this is the way people have always been, this is the way it’s going to be right to the end.
CC: Well, I mean, hopefully the end, if it’s as close as people may think, I mean we’re dangerously following the pattern of the Roman Empire in the United States.
BM: Oh yeah. How do you get—you sound, for a rock star, you sound extremely intelligent. I mean, you must do an awful lot of reading—
CC: Unfortunately. [laughs]
BM: What’s that? Unfortunately? [laughs]
CC: [laughs] Sometimes I wish I just didn’t care. Yeah, I read a lot, and people I surround myself with are very, you know, I have a lot of very intelligent friends, and teachers and politicians, and people that are just, I like to know what I’m talking about. I made sure that with the W.A.R.P.E.D. record, it’s like, I didn’t want to do a record like that and not be able to face up to the things and what’s been going on. And like I said, I don’t—I’m—I love the United States. I do not take a stance against my country on this record. I would never do that. I am not your Benedict Arnold rock star.
BM: Well I can see that, because you support the troops as often as you can, you always say—
CC: Yeah, I support everything about my country. I pay my taxes, I do what I have to do, I would put on a uniform and grab a gun tomorrow and stand there and give my life if I had to for this country if I believed what was going on. But if you can’t even believe what you’re seeing, how can you believe what’s going on? I think that’s where I end up, it’s like the integrity’s bad. It really bothers me.
BM: On W.A.R.P.E.D. are you singing the lead on “Amazing Grace”?
CC: Yeah.
BM: Man, I had no idea your voice was that good. I don’t think you’re given credit as a vocalist so much as you are a guitarist.
CC: Well, I never sang lead before in my life, so this is something I just started doing.
BM: Wow.
CC: And it’s getting better all the time, I work very hard at it, so…
BM: That song especially, with the sound effects going on, it’s pretty damn emotional. I mean, it’s—
CC: Well, it’s supposed to be, you know. That’s the song that’s one of the most popular hymns for people when they’re reaching out to God, near death, or the song at funerals. I just was going from that view of somebody in the battlefield, you know, not knowing at any given time if it’s going to be their last second, ‘cause it only takes a millisecond for a bullet or a bomb to take somebody out. It’s like when you go into war in any situation, you have to be considering that and what’s going through someone’s head. You know. Especially a war that was over in a lot of ways, and in two and a half months, and continues years later.
BM: Yeah. Are you going to be able to tour—
CC: More deaths and more expenses than it had when it started.
BM: Do you get to tour in support of W.A.R.P.E.D. or is the label’s problems going to hamper you with that?
CC: I’m going to do some shows over the summer, some weekend stuff in the States. I just really, I need to get my business together, I need to get a game plan together for my future with this thing, and just really figure out how to market me the right way – which I think it’s just natural, you know, people take me for who I am. I’m a pretty intense person with a good heart, and I think that shows up in my music and hopefully people can vibe along with that. If you listen to the other tunes they find out there’s a lot of me that’s in everybody. I’m going through what everybody else is. Got good times, got bad times, I’ve got, you know, good things happen financially, bad things happen financially, good things happen personally, bad things happen personally, just like everybody else. I’m not, I’m no different than any other person that’s in my audience and I think that’s going to be the one thing that separates me from a lot of other artists. ‘Cause I never consider myself any different. In some ways people are like, that’s bad, because you should be this and that, and I’m like, nah, you know, I’d rather sit home and frickin’ go down the street with my friends and build houses or something.
BM: [laughs]
CC: Make a quote unquote honest living and sit there and be real before I’m going to sit there and pretend like I’m something I’m not. And that usually is a substance-induced state anyway. It’s like, I’m realistic, that’s where my life is. I have to be, I’ve always been that way. Sometimes it’s bad because I look for the worst in a lot of situations, you know, you try to stay optimistic. But it’s difficult because as much as you do, things happen like your record company pulling out on you right in the middle of a record, you know.
BM: [laughs]
CC: I’m faced with having studio bills staring you in the face, and things like that. So you just have to prepare yourself for the most adverse situation like anything. You know, my job is insecure like anybody’s is. When factories were closing down in my hometown when I was a little kid, people who had parents with six figure jobs in the ’70s, they were really cool. My dad worked for the town and he was building baseball fields and I was white trash, apparently, to people, and all the sudden my dad became a foreman in town and had benefits and these people lost all their jobs and they were going down there trying to work for him.
BM: Uh huh.
CC: [laughs]. You know, it’s just like, life is like that. I mean, you have to stay grounded, and that’s what I try to do.
BM: TSO looks like a huge energy builder, a sort of positive thing going. Does that sort of recharge your batteries every year?
CC: Yeah, it recharges a lot of things. [laughs]
BM: [laughs]
CC: [laughs]
BM: Emotional batteries.
CC: I think it’s—Yeah, it’s also like, you’re—you get kind of put back in the center of what you worked for, and you get that sense of accomplishment and that fulfillment personally and musically and all those other things as you look at the people in the audience. So, it’s a great thing for me. I mean, I consider myself very fortunate to be involved with the band even though I’ve been there since the beginning. I definitely consider TSO to be something I’ve, you know, I definitely don’t know where my life would be without TSO, I think. And Paul. There are things that happen, it’s just, you’re very fortunate to have, and I never, never take that for granted at all.
BM: See, that sounds way, way humble for a guy who’s as accomplished as you are. You play with musicians all over the world, you’ve toured the world, and yet you’re this humble. Which is a really good testament to, I don’t know if it’s your upbringing or what it is, but I’m telling you, you’ve got a lot on the ball. [laughs]
CC: Well, thanks. Thanks very much for that. [pause] I actually have to get back to work in the studio because we’re wrapping up.
BM: Oh, sure.
CC: My time is kind of running out here.
BM: Well, thank you so much for your time Chris, I appreciate it.
CC: No, thank you. It was fun to talk to you about that stuff, and if you have any other questions drop me a line and I will talk to you soon.
BM: All right. Thanks Chris. Take care.
CC: You too. Bye.
Whew. We covered a lot of ground and, in some ways, I got the feeling the interview was cathartic for Chris. He aired a lot of pent-up feelings about a lot of subjects. And I appreciated his candor.
I hope Chris does tour the U.S. this summer. And, as always, I’ll be first in line to buy TSO tickets the split second they go on sale. To me, there’s no more magical gig on the face of the earth.
Chris Caffery can be found on the following web sites:
www.chriscaffery.com
www.trans-siberian.com
www.savatage.com
www.myspace.com/chriscaffery
